Jimmy: hey, everybody, welcome back to the show. This is Unpacking Peanuts. I'm Jimmy. I'm a cartoonist and your host for the proceedings. You might know me from my books, Amelia Rules, Seven Good Reasons Not to Grow Up and The Dumbest Idea Ever. Joining me, as always, are my pals, co hosts and fellow cartoonists.
He's a playwright and a composer, both for the band Complicated People, as well as for this very podcast. He's the co creator of the original comic book Price Guide, the original editor of Amelia Rules, and the creator of such great strips as Strange Attractors, A Gathering of Spells, and Tangled River, it's Michael Cohen.
Michael: Say hey.
Jimmy: And he is the executive producer and writer of Mystery Science Theater 3000, a former vice president of Archie comics, and the creator of the Instagram sensation Sweetest Beasts, Harold Buchholz.
Jimmy: So, 1976, we made it all the way up to the bicentennial. This is one of my favorite childhood years. I was four years old in 1976. I have lots of memories of the bicentennial and reading Peanuts and all kinds of good stuff. Do you guys have any memories of, this particular year?
Michael: I went to Mardi Gras, New Orleans.
Jimmy: Oh, really? Was that your first Mardi Gras trip?
Michael: Yes. It's my only Mardi Gras.
Jimmy: Did you enjoy it?
Michael: Yeah, it was very bizarre. We stayed-- a store owner who we did some work for put us up. So we slept on the floor of his display room. And what he had the room was was animals, animal heads. Oh, God, everywhere. The store was called, the Endangered Species. And this is before people actually knew what a law was, and they saw there’d be, like, tiger heads and zebras and stuff, all kinds of stuff. Weird animals.
Harold: How did you get--?
Michael: I’d wake up--I was sleeping on the floor. And you open in the middle of the night, there are all these African animals mounted on the wall.
Harold: Yeah. And this is the New Orleans Mardi Gras, I'm assuming.
Harold: So how did you get pulled into helping at a store that was selling animals?
Michael: We weren't helping. No. We did some business for him because, we were both ivory engravers back in the day. And so we did business with him, both me and the guy I was traveling with. And so he said, hey, well, you can stay with me. So we did. like a Twilight zone.
Jimmy: how about you, Harold?
Harold: Yeah, I was ten, years old, during the bicentennial. And it was my first experience as a young kid of the idea of the country kind of coming together. That was kind of the feel like there was something to celebrate together that pretty much everyone was behind one way or another. So that was my little ten year old version of it. It just seemed like it was yeah, it was like a year long celebration. And, boy, it was a big deal, as I remember it from a kid's perspective. Obviously, at school, they were playing it up, and we were learning a lot of things. We went to Disney World for the first time in 75. It had been open for four years, I guess. And the Bicentennial celebration had begun in 75. It was probably I don't know if it was Christmas time, but, we went down there and everything was decked out with Bicentennial stuff, so yeah, I have a fond memory of that. That's my first experience of an event that kind of seemed to bring the nation together. And it was kind of an optimistic, celebratory time.
Jimmy: Yeah, very much so. very much. I really enjoyed it.
Liz: I have a story too.
Jimmy: Oh, yeah?
Harold: Go for it, Liz.
Liz: I was 22, and so I was, like, way too cool for the Bicentennial. The night before July 4, I changed my mind, and my cousin Kathy, who is a listener, shout out to Kathy-- Kathy and I took the high speed line into Philadelphia and went and saw the Parade of States.
Harold: Oh, wow.
Jimmy: Very nice. Well, I have two small anecdotes. I'll tell one Bicentennial related, one more Peanuts related. I mean, it's one of the biggest early events of my life that I remember. My whole family came. There was a big parade and stuff like that. For anyone who's read The Dumbest Idea Ever, there's one line in there where I talk about seeing the Girardville fireworks display, and it was in August instead of July 4 because Girardville was just cheap, and they would get fireworks and stuff after, so they could get them cheaper.
Harold: It's a close out, right?
Jimmy: Yeah, exactly. so I looked up the Girardville Bicentennial, and I found a newspaper clipping. And you know what day Girardville, Pennsylvania, had their Bicentennial parade? No, not July 4, September 11.
Michael: Oh, wow. Isn't that weird?
Jimmy: Yeah. Now, here's the other thing that I wanted to say about Peanuts. So, you know, I'm always on about how Charles Schulz is a character in the Strip, and it's okay. So, I got myself that-- I treated myself to that DC Comics app where you could read, all of DC Comics or whatever anyway that they've managed to digitize, which is thousands of books. So I still have all my comics from my childhood, even though most of them are read to tatters. But I looked up the first comic books that I ever would have gotten. the oldest ones are in my collection, which all are from, like, October and November of 1975.
Jimmy: And do you know what the very first comic I got is about?
Jimmy: The two writers of the Justice League going into the Justice League world and becoming characters in the story and affecting the story. So Lucy had that theory that, the human personality is already well set by the time they're five. I think that explains everything about m my literary taste for the rest of my life.
Jimmy: It was by Elliot S. Maggin and Cary Bates.
Harold: Huh? There's probably something to that, right? I definitely think there's something deep impression on you.
Jimmy: It totally did. Absolutely. Yeah. And it was a JLA JSA crossover, so it was a really good, way to spend $0.25 for my dad. But 1976 in Peanuts. Harold, what are you thinking about this year?
Harold: There are, again, a lot of stories, a lot of extended stories in here.
Harold: And particularly the first half of this year, I really enjoyed. I don't know. Again, maybe that's because this was kind of a peak Peanuts reading time for me, like, when it was coming out new, but, I just really liked the atmosphere of Peanuts, in the first half of the year, and I laughed out loud, I think more, in this year than any of the years before. I don't laugh out loud a lot, when I'm reading comics, but his hit rate for me was bigger than anytime I can remember. And to do a bit of a spoiler, there was an event on New Year's Eve, 1975, for Charles Schulz that affected the strip for a good six, weeks or so. Charles Schulz fractured his fifth metatarsal on the tennis court on New Year's Eve, 1975, and we see that reflected in the strip extensively.
Harold: So that was interesting. But, yeah, there are a lot of, short stories, essentially, this year, he gets into some extended things, and some surprising things pop up this year. He seems to be kind of pretty freewheeling this year. I mean, he just seems like he's on top of his game, and he's enjoying what he's doing, and he's going places that he hasn't gone before, and it seems to be with a lot of confidence.
Jimmy: Yeah, it definitely does. One thing Harold and I talked about years ago, before this podcast even started, we were talking about how Snoopy would be so angry and frustrated as a tennis player during the 70s.
Jimmy: Do you know what? I finally and, we would talk, what is going on with Schulz that made that he was expressing that time thing? You know what I think it is? I think it is someone who is an absolute master of something, trying something new, and not being good at it. And that's the level of know, I think Charles Schulz was probably going out there a couple times a week and getting his butt kicked on the tennis court, and it was frustrating to yeah.
Harold: One of the things, you know, we've heard from a number of people, including Schulz himself, is he says he was a competitive guy. Right. I mean, how many cartoonists are active sports people? How many cartoonists created their own community sports center. Right. And so Schulz brings that to the strip. It's something we don't talk about a whole lot, but that is a unique aspect of, I think that's reflected in here, we see his competitive nature coming out. And I was just fascinated that this event that happened to him that obviously was a big deal for you to he's essentially in a cast for a number of weeks, and you get the sense that you can kind of tell how many days ahead he was on his daily strips by the fact that, we see on the 23rd of, February, Snoopy, having the same problem he did. And so I'm guessing that was not too many days after he, went through what he did. He might have missed a little time having to go through something as painful as a fracture and having a cast put, you know, Schulz is definitely living through Snoopy, from February into April.
Jimmy: Absolutely. Michael, now, what did you think about seeing some, appearances of some of the old favorites? Just glance coming around now and again?
Michael: I thought that was very odd. It was nice to see them. I was really shocked that Pigpen made one appearance.
Jimmy: Yeah, it's the first time in, I think, what is it, nine years? Yeah.
Michael: And Frieda hasn't been around. But I also noticed that a couple of his newer characters, who looked like they were going to get a lot of play, hardly showed up this year. I mean, Franklin shows up in three, and, Rerun, there was a couple. But I think Schulz doesn't know what to do at Rerun yet. I mean, they're all the bike strips where he's sitting on the back of the bike, and there's plenty of strips with Linus and Lucy at home, and Rerun is never there.
Michael: It's like he was forgotten.
Jimmy: It is a very strange thing, the Rerun thing, because, it literally takes him, I think, until the 90s before he really figures out what to do with Rerun.
Harold: But it's interesting. Michael, you're saying he's not interacting in the world of Linus and Lucy?
Michael: No, he's on the bike. I mean that's that's just a number of things I noticed. It was a very strange year, I think.
Michael: We did see Frieda again. We saw Patty, and Violet two times each, Pig Pen once. So I don't know if he's just saying goodbye to these, but or he just needed some people to fill up the rest. They don't do anything significant. They're just background, pretty much.
Jimmy: I find it's somewhat strange to see them in the mid seventies, Peanuts style, you know what I mean? Because you haven't seen them slowly change. And even just the way they occupy the space of the panel is, different than the way it was back then. And it's an interesting thing to see because you've seen all the other characters change day by day so that it's almost invisible.
Jimmy: But with them, it's like, boom, here we are.
Michael: And they look the same.
Harold: Yeah. Yeah.
Michael: But actually my, whole outlook on the year is like the complete opposite of Harold's.
Michael: Yeah. I just was not connecting with anything for the first half of the year and I was actually despairing whether I'd have any picks. They just did nothing for me. And then later in the year, there's actually a week where there was like, three that I really liked. And so it was just the complete opposite. we'll talk about it more when we get there, but there was a lot about this year that I was not happy with. And I think this is the first year where I was a little bit more on the negative side than the positive side. so trying not to be, too negative on the strip, but, I'll have my comments as we go.
Jimmy: Well, and what I would say, to us and to the listeners and everything else is that this is a 50 year project of one person's creativity. And if it was a never ending escalator ride to heaven, it A, wouldn't be that interesting, and B wouldn't, be produced by a human.
Michael: Yeah. and very few people have careers without down periods. I mean, I think of like, Mozart.
Michael: Everybody else goes through phases where they kind of lose it and sometimes get it back, sometimes not.
Jimmy: When you look at the old Fantastic Four run, I mean, there are definite peaks and valleys.
Michael: Oh, yeah.
Jimmy: And one of the things I find that interesting in a long career like that, or a long creative work is that sometimes a valley. Well, Rerun is a great example. Doesn't know what to do with Rerun here. Clearly, he's got those bike strips, which I do think the bike strips are funny, but that's all he's got. But later, Rerun becomes one of the highlights. And that's one of the things that you can only really get by committing to creating such a long work. It's such a rare thing to see that it's cool and that's what makes even the down periods interesting to me, because you never know where you're going to come along a little gem or a little seed of something that happens later.
Harold: and it puts the other elements of the strip in a relief. You're like, okay, what is a Peanuts world when everything isn't quite working? And then that helps you understand better some of the things that do work.
Michael: But we're not going to agree on what's working and what's not. And probably everyone has different opinion on that. So it sounded like Harold really liked what was happening.
Harold: Yeah, I did. There was a confidence in this strip that is kind of breathtaking to me, given all the places he's going now with the strip based on what he's built up over 25 years. And then he's kind of branching off from that. The other thing that really struck me I don't know if it was this year, or, something just hit me. and I don't know if you guys would agree with this, but one thing that struck me as maybe why the strip in some ways can feel kind of refreshing is with one notable section I can think of, you guys probably would think of others. The characters don't lie to each other and they're just kind of expressing where they are. And then they have those little sparks that come up the relationships. But can you think of an exception to that? Because there was one that jumped out at me. It took me a couple of seconds, like, oh, of course.
Michael: I wasn’t thinking along those terms at all.
Jimmy: Yeah, I can't think. Go ahead, tell us.
Harold: The football strips with Lucy. it's a ritualized lie.
Jimmy: Right? Right. That's true.
Harold: Yeah. But the way he treats lies, that's not your typical lie. That's like somebody who's consistently or an April Fool's joke from Lucy. Those are the times I think. But he treats lying differently. And when I think of TV shows and movies, lying sometimes is just all over a film. I mean, the whole basis of the film is someone's lying or Bewitched or something like that, where it's like you have to lie because the person is doing things and then you deny that it's happening and that just happens over and over again.
Michael: That generates plot twists.
Harold: Yeah, but I was just thinking exactly and how refreshing it is that these characters are just kind of coming head to head with each other and they're kind of largely telling you what they think and telling each other what they think, or they can't help it.
Jimmy: Yeah. It is interesting when you're, as a writer, kind of rob yourself or deny yourself, I guess I should say, things that are used so prevalently in other media and other things, even in your own art or whatever, because it does give you the opportunity to find fresh stuff and to do fresh takes on well worn things. I think of that show from the 90s, Mad About You, which was basically about a couple being a successful marriage and it was a hit, and successful and wonderful. And then years into it, they thought, well, we've got to do some drama, so let's, break them up for a couple of episodes like they're going to separate or something. And it ruins the show because, that's not what the show was. It wasn't what you were going for.
Michael: Well, sometimes, no, it does generate ideas. I rarely talk about my own work, but I did a graphic novel called Tangled River, and one of the restrictions I put on it was I didn't want to have a villain, and it's an adventure story.
Harold: I think that's cool. Yeah.
Jimmy: It is cool. Yeah.
Harold: And I think that does make your story feel really unique, because it's not the typical trajectory, and it keeps you, as a reader, on your toes.
Jimmy: Yes. Because you're not like, oh, here's the beat where things go badly. And, oh, here's the beat where they.
Michael: Find, well, if things go badly, it's just because people are acting on what they think is best and they're wrong.
Jimmy: Yeah. As opposed to--
Harold: Right, Which is, like, a lot like Peanuts. Right?
Michael: Yeah. The one thing well, since we're talking more in general than getting into the specifics of the strips, but the one thing I noticed, which I think is probably responsible for my not enjoying it as much is the situations in the longer strips are often based on what I would call a silly premise. It doesn't quite follow logically from anything previously. It's funny, the fact that the cat can slash and the dog house is like, this one stick that's left is used a lot.
Michael: And we're seeing it, so we're not imagining it.
Michael: And so, to me, well, that's silly, but it's funny. So if his main core desire was to make people laugh, that works. But if his main core desire is to have this world where the characters generate the humor based on their personalities, to me, it's like, that's cheap. It's a sight gag from a cartoon.
Harold: Well, yeah.
Jimmy: It literally is a sight gag from a cartoon.
Harold: Yeah. Which, to me, I guess, and maybe that's we're coming at it from two different directions for this first half of the year. But, yeah, to me, that's the joy of cartooning, that you can do that. You couldn't do that very easily in any other medium. You actually are showing something that's so impossible, but it happened, and you have to just accept it. And that's kind of the surprise and delight of it. To me, it doesn't feel cheap. It feels like it's using the medium, for what it can do.
Michael: But to me, it's not why I'm reading the strip for big visual gags unless they're totally character based, like you know Woodstock--
Harold: But you wouldn't say Snoopy's responses to that. It's what makes it special.
Michael: Yeah. It all comes down to this thing where you've kind of made an agreement with the author.
Michael: Like, okay, I've never read an Agatha Christie novel, but I assume people who read all of them, the agreement is if you believe that one person can solve, like, 50 mysteries, murder mysteries in a lifetime, then I could tell you a good story, and you go, okay, I'll accept that. So my agreement with Schulz was, yeah. I will follow these characters and believe in everything in the world. As long as it was, like, character based, as long as it was something that comes out of his creations.
Harold: I do think that there's maybe more and more visual humor. And maybe that comes from Schulz's model of sketching to get ideas. And he often takes these ideas that are very visually fun and then turns them into a comic. Maybe he was doing that more at this point. I don't know.
Michael: Well, he doesn't have the kids around to give him the crazy thing kids do humor.
Michael: And so he might be just pulling it out of his imagination, or that's probably true. Going back to cartoons he liked.
Harold: Yeah. Right. If you loved Elzie Segar's Popeye, which we know he did, that's a fantastical world that really played up the physical in a way that you just couldn't do it in any other medium. And yeah, I don't know if that's something he's drawing on now.
Jimmy: Yeah. Well, the other thing about it is 26 years, there's no way that you're the same person. Every skin cell, every cell, actually, in your entire body has changed, what, three and a half times since he started this? So he's literally not the same person.
Michael: That's a true science fact, by the way.
Jimmy: That's a true science fact. so it's just going to be different. What I find amazing and interesting is that he somehow maintains that popularity because it seems to be, its shifts, at the very least. Don't disturb its, relationship with the Zeitgeist and with people. And in some ways, it's like he is right with it, or maybe even a little bit ahead of it, even now.
Harold: Yeah. Up to this point, for sure. Right.
Michael: Is his popularity continuing in this period? I mean, outside of the TV stuff?
Harold: Well, it's hard to know what impact the TV shows specials have on the overall perception of Peanuts.
Maybe I can look up some of those. The Editor and Publisher used to collect those polls and publish it. Editor and Publisher was a magazine. I think it was a weekly magazine, that was specifically for editors and publishers of newspapers. And they had a really cool section on comics that would collect stories. And so, like, the Des Moines Register did a poll, they would find that and send it into and then you would see this kind of ongoing thing from these different parts of the country. And sometimes it was like the entire list so they would show you it was like number 45. And that's like brutal. Usually those popularity polls, you see who's at the top, but you see who's on the very bottom too. Because the newspaper has to justify that they're going to drop a strip by showing you that, hey, you guys didn't vote for this, so we're going to try something new. And so you really get it's. Like the Nielsen ratings of comics coming from all over the country.
Michael: I'd be curious if you could dig up some stats for this year.
Harold: Yeah, I can certainly tell you that in terms of the number of newspapers carrying Peanuts, it just kept growing to unprecedented levels all over the world. But yeah, that's a good question, Michael. It's like, at this point, what is fueling that? Is it the strip itself? Is it the awareness of the animation, the merch? You got your plush Woodstock and Snoopy.
Jimmy: Yeah. No, I mean, Peanuts was everywhere in the 70s. Everywhere. I mean, he is the most important cartoonist of the decade in terms of pop culture appeal, in terms of ubiquitousness. There's nothing even close to it.
Michael: Yeah, but it was not in my life at all. So I have like zero reflections of Peanuts in the 70s.
Harold: That's what makes it so refreshing to hear your perspective. Because Jimmy, and I both have these imprinted memories, particularly of these strips, I would guess starting around now, that this is when we were reading it. So we're remembering our childhood. There's all sorts of stuff. And then you're coming at it just totally fresh and saying, hey, what is this now?
Michael: Yeah, we were not talking about this, me and my friends, whereas we used to talk about it every day.
Jimmy: Well, I am glad that you grew, up between 1950 and 1976.
Michael: I never actually grew up, but I've been around for a while.
Jimmy: Could you imagine how pathetic it would be if you were still with your friends talking about Peanuts all those years later?
Michael: Well, we still do the same ones.
Jimmy: We're doing it right now. That was my bit.
Harold: Yeah. I'm just thinking I will go back and see if I can dig up some of, those Editors and Publishers over different periods and see what's going on. Because is there a point where Peanuts gets toppled? There's one strip I can think of that's going to debut in two years. Yeah. Garfield.
Jimmy: Garfield is the only thing that came close. I don't believe it ever topped it. But it was a source of like-- it was an issue with Schulz because he definitely felt the heat from I think probably that. And I think the other thing that probably annoyed him would be Calvin and Hobbes.
Harold: Yeah. And I would love to see some Calvin and Hobbes polls where Peanuts and Garfield are and to know between those three what's going on. And then I think you guys at least, Michael, you might be surprised at some of the comics that consistently did very well that you might not necessarily think were much of anything in terms of.
Jimmy: Blondie or something like that.
Harold: Blondie. but I was thinking specifically, it's divisive in its own kind of gentle ways, Family Circus that often pulled incredibly well.
Michael: Or Kathy.
Harold: Kathy? Yeah, I'd love to see Kathy. Yeah. I'm going to pull these up because I think it will be interesting. And if I can certainly do it year by year, that might be fun to kind of just check in to see what's out there in the strips.
Jimmy: Other than all right, well, we've talked for over half an hour. We haven't gotten to January yet. So how about we get to the strips?
Harold: Yes. Sure.
Jimmy: All right. So if you guys out there want to follow along, what you could do is you, hop on over to the old Unpacking Peanuts website there. You're going to sign up for the great Peanuts Reread. And that'll get you one email a month from us letting you know what strips we're going to cover. That way you can, do a little homework ahead of time and read along with us other ways you can follow along. You can go to GoComics.com type in Peanuts. As I read the date, you type it in there and away you go. So let's get started with
January 2. Snoopy is atop his dog house, and he's looking a little under the weather. Charlie Brown says to him, “you ate 30 pizzas.” Charlie Brown continues, “whenever you go to one of Woodstock's parties, you get sick. Whatever possessed you to eat 30 pizzas?” Snoopy's now lying in his doghouse with a little star of pain shooting out from his belly. Snoopy thinks, “well, we were sitting around when all of a sudden someone began talking about the Guinness Book of World Records.”
Harold: Now this is one that made me laugh out loud. And again, going back to my childhood memories. The Guinness Book of World Records was a big deal in the 70s. It was a book that was often sold through the Scholastic book clubs. And a lot of kids would go through this book because it was like the Encyclopedia of crazy stuff. And it was like collecting all these it's like Ripley's Believe It or not, where you have to believe it.
Harold: Right. This took me right back to 1976 when Snoopy said it surprised me and made me laugh.
Jimmy: Yeah. I remember one of my first books I ever got from the Scholastic book fair or book club. It was actually was against Book of World Records in first grade. Yeah.
Harold: And to this day, I'm sure you remember particular ones that just stood out. Absolutely.
Jimmy: The two heavy guys on the mobile motorcycles.
Harold: Yeah. The world's heaviest twins. That's. Right.
Jimmy: Okay, so next. What's up is, a sequence that's a little, well, it's very off the beaten path and I just want to give a little heads up if people are sensitive about things. Weirdly enough, this sequence, talks about suicide. So if that's not something you want to hear about just skip ahead a few minutes and, we'll meet you there. But for the rest of you, we go to
January 8. It's Sally's school building. And we see some of the kids wandering in for the start of a school day. And the school building thinks to himself “here they come again with their peanut butter lunches. How depressing. The principal complains that I don't have enough rooms. The teachers say I’m cold, the building inspector always criticizes me. The custodians hate me. I'm really depressed. I'd cry, but I hate to streak my windows.”
Michael: I was assuming somehow it wasn't the entire school that was thinking. It was this particular wall So I was kind of shocked, like, oh, my God, he's the whole school.
Jimmy: Well, here, let's go to the second so we could figure out what happens here. Because then on
January 9, Charlie Brown walks out in his jammies to his front step and he picks up the morning paper and he reads the, headline that says school Building Collapses During Night. “Good grief.” He goes in and reads to Sally, “don't bother to get up, Sally. Our school fell over last night. Listen to this.” Then we cut back to the school which has been reduced to a pile of bricks. And, the bricks are just thinking to themselves, “I had all I could take.”
Jimmy: And it even goes on later in this sequence where Sally is doing a presentation, because they have to go to a different school. And she describes it as her school committing suicide. Which, talk me through all of this. I'm not sure this kind of truly scrambled my brain in a way because I guess if someone had asked me, hey, how many, suicides are there in Peanuts? My answer would have been zero. Even though I've read this before, it didn't strike me as it did this time.
Michael: But it seems to me that the bricks themselves are sentient. So he's not really dead.
Jimmy: It's not really gone.
Michael: He's broken down into his component beings.
Harold: Takes the edge off a little.
Jimmy: It does take the edge.
Michael: Well, yeah. The bricks will be used in another building and then, so he lives on.
Jimmy: Well, I don't mean talk me through it as a-- I'm not sitting here…
Michael: I Jimmy. It's okay. The bricks are still alive.
Jimmy: Thank you, Michael. Thank you. I appreciate it. Isn’t this weird?
Harold: I was reading these, of course, chronologically and the first one that you just read, Jimmy, was one I picked because that little moment there where you're seeing his thoughts and he's just talking about how depressing this is to him, that he's just kind of lost his joy of being a school building. And then he'd say, I'd cry, but I hate to streak my windows. I mean, that strip just by itself. If nothing had happened after, it just kind of hit me. It's like, oh, wow, Schulz is having us empathize with a sentient building. That's pretty amazing. And then the surprise that he just falls in a heap, or I guess it's a he. I don't know if we ever know anyone calls him a he or a she, but just that one little moment was there's. There's often been talk about a sense of empathy that Schulz has towards his characters, and this this kind of puts it in a huge relief right. Because it's a school building. And then the fact that the school building ends it is that Schulz is willing to go to this place that nobody nobody in comics would have and maybe wouldn't have gotten away with. Right.
Jimmy: Oh, wouldn't have gotten well,
Harold: The level of trust that people have put in Schulz based on these 25 years of making the strip, somehow he can take us to this place. And that's, again, to me, part of his brilliance is that he's earned this right to say things to us with his strip that I don't think others can't.
Jimmy: And can you imagine anyone even considering it? Right. It's very strange. The other thing about it is, I do personally have a very, pitch black sense of humor, just in my personal life, that one of my therapists actually once said, do you think it's good to make jokes like that? And I actually really had to think about it, and, to me, it's like, such a huge relief because you're taking the power away from it, and you're not especially something like this, which is so dark and so unthinkable. If you can find a way to make it a joke, in some ways, you're not there. You know what mean it's. You're not in-- you're not being held down by it. I think it's interesting that Schulz went to this place after he's married again in a happy location. He's doing okay. You know what I mean?
Harold: And we've heard stories of he's the kind of guy that would just, late at night, just like, Snoopy sometimes when he's sitting in the dark, he's just asking these existential questions that Schulz kind of said, that's who I am. I have these lots of dark nights of the soul.
Jimmy: Yeah. And I'm glad that he was in a place at this point where he could talk about this type of thing and not feel like it was a yoke on him personally. At least that's what I'm, inferring from all this.
Harold: Yeah. And then to see Sally the next day, just running to the school, saying, school, school, school. Why did you do it? Why did you do it even there, there's like this school building. It's sad, but it's also somebody cared about.
Jimmy: This-- it's a little girl crying because her school building committed suicide. But it's not, it's a cartoon drawing of a little girl upset because her school committed suicide. Actually, it's just ink lines. When you get to the absolute abstraction of what is making us have these emotional and intellectual reactions, it really is like magic.
Michael: Well, the magic is if you consider everything being alive. Like, Harold, your car just had an accident.
Michael: Are you feeling anything other than economic frustration? Are you going, that car served me well. That was a good old car.
Harold: Yeah, I am.
Jimmy: You are? I'm one of those people too.
Harold: Yeah, I love that little car. I mean, when I was showing it to the auto body guy, I was that, yeah, that's been a great little car. It served me well, and I feel badly for the car. Yeah, I know what you mean. It was a lovely little car. And yes, Michael, I did. I did feel that way.
Michael: I mean Schulz is looking at this world like everything is alive, which is very Zen, I believe.
Jimmy: Well, it's so funny for yeah, it's an eastern or maybe even like native American type of worldview. This rock, this pitcher’s mound has a soul and an identity. it's a pretty wild place for him to go. Good old Charles Schulz from St. Paul.
Liz: May I add, or pose a different way of looking at it.
Jimmy: You sure can.
Liz: You haven't mentioned that the message that I took out of it, which is this is Schulz talking about the crisis in the schools. Well, schools not getting enough money to...
Jimmy: Funding, you know what?
Jimmy: When you think about it as just the crumbling infrastructure of roads and schools and stuff like that, that could very well have been something on his mind. If you look at it like the school I grew up that was across the street from me where I grew up, it's been abandoned now for like 30 years or something like that. And it's just an eyesore and the roofs caving in and stuff like that. And it wasn't much better when it was open.
Harold: Yeah, I grew up in a time when there were a lot of elementary schools, for some reason, seem there's more of them. Right. They keep them smaller in towns. So you might have like one or two high schools, and then you might have six or seven elementary schools. And because of that, it just seemed like there was more that would go into the buildings for the older students. And then the smaller ones that I remember, they had the kind of the brick foundation and then those gigantic glass windows from the lot of those are, all these years later are now kind of at the end of their lives. And that style of thing. When I think of 1976, I think, man, probably the vast majority of school buildings like this were pretty new made in the last 20 or 30 years, elementary school buildings, because they were just building them like crazy.
Jimmy: Well, my school, in second and third grade, they combined, like, the Girardville Catholic School with the National Catholic School. And so the first four grades went out to this other town and the boys restroom. My classroom was on the third floor balcony. And then you would go down to the basement, go out the gym. Then there was literally an outdoor, like an arch, like a tunnel. You would have to go outside into a door on the other side of the tunnel.
Jimmy: and that was where the bathroom was. Wow. It was absolutely insane.
Harold: So would you have to bundle up, like, if it's winter, put a jacket on you, you have to go to the bathroom. You raise your hand, you expect to come back half hour later. Yeah.
Jimmy: How to have it put a jacket on and you had to take someone with you. They wouldn't let you go outside alone.
Harold: Yeah. So that didn't become a racket among the kids.
Jimmy: No comment.
January 16. Sally is now looking at her new school building. And, a kid comes up behind her and says, “hey, are you the crazy little kid I've heard about who talks to school buildings?” Sally is having none of it and yells at the kid, “get away from me, musclehead, or I'll punch your lights out.” Sally then says to the new school, “anyway, he was a good school, and he always spoke very highly of you.” And the new school thinks “that's nice to know.”
Michael: Now, there's no bricks here, right?
Jimmy: It looks like some sort of sided school. That's very strange.
Harold: Yeah, the siding covered school. I kind of wish that the little girl here would, have been Truffles because I really love her design.
Jimmy: I love Truffles design.
Harold: This character's design. I mean no, I'm saying I wish this character was the look that Truffles had.
Jimmy: No, this is a great looking character, but I love-- Truffles is so deeply weird.
Harold: Oh, man. Yeah. This character I could have really enjoyed as a design. It is a very lived on.
Jimmy: Yeah, it's a very good look.
January 22. Woodstock, is not feeling at all well. Snoopy is taking care of him. Snoopy has Woodstock's nest up on top of his dog house. Linus comes up and says, “I hear your friend has the vapors.” Linus continues, “you're taking an awful chance treating him yourself. What if something goes wrong? He could sue you.” Snoopy thinks about this, “sue me? Woodstock would never do that.” But then in the last panel, we see Woodstock with a ridiculous cheesy and sly grin on his face.
Jimmy: That made me laugh.
Michael: This puzzled me because no one's talked about the vapors for 100 years.
Harold: That's why I love it.
Michael: They never explain why these kids are talking about the Vapors .
Harold: and bird suing. I don't know which is the crazier one. I don't know.
Jimmy: Oh, my God, that look on his face and that last panel truly makes me laugh.
Michael: But Snoopy's a lawyer, you can't sue him.
Jimmy: That's true, that's true.
Harold: This is such a snapshot of, again, the places Schulz has gone, and he's just building limb on limb on limb, taking us off to the edge here. The fact that Linus has heard Snoopy thinks things, but somehow they're sympatico and understanding these things that this little bird in the nest has the vapors and it's the vapors. It's so specific, right. It's not just not feeling well. Right. That's the term that Snoopy, is using. And then Linus understands it. That's amazing.
Jimmy: We have talked so long. We are only here coming up on February, and we're already like 50 minutes into this. So how about we're, we're going to take a break right now, get, a snack or something, and then we will come back on the other side and press, on ahead through 1976. Okay? Be right back.
VO: Hi, everyone. Have you seen the latest anger and happiness index? Have you admired the photo of Jimmy as Luke Skywalker? Or read the details of how Michael co created the first comic book price guide? Just about every little known subject we mention is referenced on the Unpacking Peanuts website. Peanut's Obscurities are explained further and other stories are expanded more than you ever wanted to know, from Albert Payson Terhune to Zipatone, Annette Funicello to Zorba the Greek, plus the latest tier list, and of course, the Shermometer check it all out@UnpackingPeanuts.com/obscurities
Jimmy: Hey, everybody, we're back. We're going to get right into the strips in just a moment, but before we do that, want, to just, check in with the old Peanuts mailbag as we do our new segment, Hanging Out in the Mailbox. Liz, do we have any letters from anyone? Any emails?
Liz: Yeah, we got a message from Drew, who says, Dear Unpacking Peanuts, one of the most underrated Peanuts gags is Sally practicing a character or number. Then heckling Charlie Brown if he ever needs that character drawn. It speaks to Sally's personality and is one reason why she is my favorite. The best one for 1975, part one is February 11 with the number seven. And that's where Sally is practicing her sevenses.
Jimmy: Very nice.
Harold: Yeah. Sally is such an interesting character that she's very creative in her own. She's approaching things, that are part of schooling on her own terms. Right. And the things where she's sitting at the desk practicing commas and numbers and all of that, that's kind of her creative outlet in doing these things that, normally would be considered drudgery. And she's somehow turned it into this elevated creative exercise, I think, really does make Sally a pretty cool character.
Jimmy: You know and actually, if you think about it, that's Schulz practicing his pen lines way back at the art instruction, you know, trying to get your thicks and thins and your very fine lines hatch next to each other. All right, well, thank you, Drew.
We'd also like to give a quick, thank you to Paul Lai, Dawn Dicker, Sarah Wilson, and Bernie Attema for their generous support. Thank you, guys. and if you want to reach out to us, you can email us. We're Unpacking Peanuts@gmail.com. you can follow us on social media. We're at UnpackPeanuts on Instagram, Twitter and Threads and Unpacking Peanuts over there on Facebook. And, of course, you can always go visit our website, where you can check out the Peanuts Obscurities page and, maybe buy one of our books or support us with a, mud pie donation, all kinds of good stuff. so thanks, and we would love to hear more from you.
All right, let's get back to the strips. So, we're now, in the aftermath, of the school building falling down, and we have Charlie Brown and the gang from that neighborhood having to attend school with Peppermint Patty and her friends. Worse yet, Charlie Brown is actually sharing a desk with Peppermint Patty, which is, I think, a really delightful sequence. but here we are on
February 6, and Marcie and Peppermint Patty are having lunch at school and talking about this situation. Marcie says to Peppermint Patty, “eat your lunch, sir.” Peppermint Patty says, “I'm in a bad mood, Marcie. I don't know how much longer I can stand sharing a desk with Chuck. I hate myself for feeling this way.” Then Peppermint Patty and Marcie are both confused as something on Peppermint Patty's hand goes pop. And then in the last panel, we see Peppermint Patty looking at her hand, and she says, “look at that. My mood ring just exploded.”
Harold: Well, there's another 70s flashback.
Michael: Yeah, I sort of wish they, introduced the mood ring earlier.
Jimmy: yeah, right.
Michael: It was kind of prevalent in pop culture for a while.
Jimmy: I will tell you what. Yeah, you could do a whole sequence of, Peppermint Patty's mood ring dealing with Charlie Brown sitting at her desk.
Harold: Here's your next pitch to Peanuts Global Worldwide.
Jimmy: There you go.
Harold: Peppermint Patty's mood ring.
Jimmy: Well, now, is this a Peanuts obscurity? It's not to us, but I bet it is for people out there younger, than us.
VO: Peanuts Obscurities Explained.
Harold: Yeah, I mean, for those of you wondering what the heck they're talking about, it has had a comeback. So it seems like every generation might or might not have seen this thing, whether it's on ____ or whatever. But it's a ring that usually it's got kind of this oval dome, that's see through, and the color on the ring will change based on the temperature of your body. But it was called a mood ring, as kind of a cool little novelty that supposedly, if your color was red, you're in love, and if it was blue, you had all these melancholy or whatever. black was anger or dead. Yeah. So that was the thing. And it was a fun novelty that was super popular in the 70s.
Jimmy: Everything was popular in the 70s for about a minute and a half.
Harold: Yeah. I mean, pet rocks. Come on.
Jimmy: Pet rocks.
February 13, we see, Peppermint Patty and Charlie Brown sitting at the desk together. Peppermint Patty says, “yes, ma'am. Chuck and I have finished our hundred sentences.”
Jimmy: Oh, this is because they have been punished. I forget. What did they have to write a hundred times?
Harold: I will not create a disturbance in class.
So Peppermint Patty is continuing. “Yes, ma'am. Chuck and I realize we did wrong. Chuck and I have learned our lesson. Chuck and I know better now, Chuck and I will try to--” In panel three this sends Charlie Brown over the edge. “I can speak for myself,” he yells. And this lands both of them in panel four outside the principal's office. Peppermint Patty saying. “Nice going, Chuck.” and Charlie Brown just sighs.
Michael: This you think this would kill the friendship, because now they can't stand each other.
Harold: But I love this sequence. Three times Charlie Brown loses it. just he's just so over the top, gone crazy because Peppermint Patty is saying, all sorts of things to Charlie Brown. Anything he's doing, he's fidgeting. He's drumming his fingers. He's just criticizing and criticizing and criticizing. And that's how he loses the first time, and then he loses here again. I just love to see this side of Charlie Brown where he normally keeps it together in school. But this is the one it this is the scenario where even Charlie Brown can lose it in school. And I just thought it was really funny, and I could definitely relate to it because I had my own childhood, outbursts at certain moments in elementary school.
Jimmy: In 9th grade, a nun caught me. Well, I wasn't even reading. I just had a copy of Cerebus, and it was oh, it was Sister Regina Alma, who we've spoken about, who is the teacher who also taught your wife. And it was the issue where Cerebus throws the baby to the crowd.
Harold: Oh, no.
Jimmy: And she set me out in the hall, and I'm sitting there, and class goes and everybody leaves, and I'm still sitting out in the hall. And she read the whole issue.
Harold: Oh, wow.
Jimmy: And so she handed it back to me and said, there's no hope for you.
Harold: She said, that that was it.
Jimmy: And then I went to my next class.
Michael: He was right.
Harold: Nailed it. Wow. Did you tell Dave Sim?
Jimmy: I wonder if I ever I might have. I may have at some point.
Michael: Man, she, somehow just picked the most outrageous thing that ever happened in that comic.
Jimmy: Well, that's because that was the only issue had. Oh, that was the first issue I bought, and I brought it to show my friends. Like, have you ever seen anything like this?
February 20. Sally and Charlie Brown are walking home from their new school. Sally is looking at a piece of paper, confused, and she says to Charlie Brown, “what kind of a report card do you call this? I didn't even get any grades.” In the last panel. She says, “all it says is good hustle.”
Harold: Now that's 70s education.
Michael: Yes, it's the first one I picked. I wasn't sure if that expression kind of carried on through the years, but, it's basically what a coach would say when you didn't do anything right on the field.
Harold: Right? Yeah, I picked it too. I didn't have to put it in the list because it was already in there. But, again, just felt so much like the 70s. There was a lot of experimental stuff going on and saying grades are bad. And so there were certain schools that were getting rid of grades or using other ways of evaluating, totally. I could totally relate to this. this was going on in our school. This is not Schulz just being crazy. I mean, it's funny that he uses good hustle. And to think that the dance, the hustle was also, popular within this around this time, it just feels 70s memories flow through the screen.
March 2. Snoopy's in bad state here. He's on top of his dog house, and his left hind paw is in a cast. Charlie Brown says, “your doctor just called.” Snoopy says “where? From the golf course?” Zing. Snoopy. Charlie Brown says, “he said to tell you that if your foot is to heal properly, you're going to have to get up and move around. That's why he put a walking cast on you.” Charlie Brown says, with unnecessary quotation marks. And then in the last panel, we see Snoopy saying, “what does he know?” As he tries to do this. And you really just have to see the strip to see the, ridiculous pose. The super heavy and large cast has put Snoopy in.
Harold: Talking about your 1968 evaluation of the different kinds of gags and Peanuts and yes, Snoopy's got his line right there in the first panel.
Harold: And I wasn't expecting it because it was a surprise. Because here's this snarky comment in the very first panel that made me laugh out loud. I was not expecting that at all.
Jimmy: I do think that his ability, and willingness to put humor in places other than the final panel is one of the things that keeps it always feeling fresh and fun.
Harold: Yeah. Keeps you on your toes, a little off guard. I can't imagine doing a single panel humor strip. Can you imagine what that's talk about restrictions.
Jimmy: Oh, boy.
Harold: To be Frank and Ernest every day. And you got to set up development, and punchline has to all happen in a single panel.
Jimmy: That's impossible. The other thing that's even more impossible if there are degrees of impossible is the Far Side, where you don't even have Frank and Ernest. You just have a square.
Harold: And it's like, good luck.
Jimmy: Yeah. 365 of them a year. It's amazing.
Harold: It is amazing. And, boy, his level of now Far Side be also be interesting to look at those polls and see how high it came up in the general audience. That was a big strip in its time. Yeah.
Jimmy: And super consistently funny. I doesn't really get, I don't think, the attention from cartoonists, maybe, as some of the other strips, because it's a single panel. But, boy, just for funny.
Harold: It's funny. Yeah. It's absolute genius. And talk about of influential strips. I would say it's the second most influential strip of the last 75 years, because it spawned so many people to do it themselves. And to this day, there's just people doing it online, and there's lots of strips in the newspapers to this day that were inspired by Far Side.
Jimmy: Yeah, absolutely.
March 10. Now, this, is another longer, sequence where Peppermint Patty has initiated a trade for the baseball season. She wants, Snoopy for Marcie. She doesn't know that Snoopy's on the cast, though, in this strip. Peppermint Patty has brought Marcie over to Charlie Brown's house, and she says to Charlie Brown, “hi, Chuck, I brought your new player over.” Then she says, “Where's my shortstop?” Charlie Brown says “out in back. You're still sure you want to trade?” Peppermint Patty walks out back with Chuck following her, and she says, “don't try to get out of it, Chuck. A deal is a deal is a deal. Just show me my new shortstop.” And then she sees Snoopy in a ridiculous pose, but with a big smile on his face, in his baseball outfit, glove and hat, but also his big, giant cast.
Michael: Charlie Brown tried to trade Snoopy a couple of years ago. And I thought he really regretted it and felt guilty about it.
Michael: And he's doing it again.
Harold: Well, it was done to him. He really didn't have any say. Peppermint Patty wouldn't have it any other way.
Jimmy: He is wishy washy, but I don't think that's an inconsistency Charlie Brown doesn't learn. Charlie Brown does something. He regrets it, and does the same thing again tomorrow. I think that works. I love the first panel. I just think that's a nicely composed, nicely drawn little scene there.
April 11, Sunday. Oh, my gosh. Who is walking by in panel one? It's Pig Pen. We haven't seen him in a hot minute, as the kids say. And Snoopy looks at the dust cloud Pigpen, has created and says, “Fantastic.” And now we're in line. And not only is Pig Pen in line, but he's in line with Marcie, Patty and Violet. Patty even has a line. She says to Pig Pen, “Pig Pen, what are you doing here?” He says, “Going to the show. What else?” Patty says, “It must be a disaster movie.” Then Violet says, “that fits. PigPen. He's already a disaster.” Sally comes up now and she says, “don't think you're gonna sit next to me, Pig Pen.” Violet is at the front of the line now, and she says, “One, please.” Now Pigpen is at the front of the line. Patty says to him, “yes, sit on the other side of theater, Pig Pen, so you won't get dust in my popcorn.” Pig Pen, with all the dignity he can muster, just says, “One, please,” and hands over a very wrinkly looking dollar. We're now back at Charlie Brown and Sally's house. Sally has returned home. Charlie Brown is on the chair reading, and he says, “I thought you went to the show.” Sally says “it was canceled. Pig Pen sat in the front row, and there was so much dust, no one could see the screen.”
Michael: I'm really happy to see that Patty and Violet are still horrible human beings.
Jimmy: Haven't missed the beat. They're just doing their same schtick just--
Harold: And this and this, strip is also notable, for a Guinness Book of World Records thing as well. The second to last panel? Charlie Brown has the longest legs he will ever have.
Jimmy: If he stood up...
Harold: for those of you at home, he's sitting in this chair. You can see his body up to about his shoulders, with this very long, kind of Lazy Boy kind of thing with a little ottoman. And his feet are on the ottoman. But my golly, he's about five, foot eight, five foot nine, probably.
Jimmy: He's, like, four heads high, approximately. Maybe even a little more. And they're normally the character is usually like two and a half heads high.
Harold: Right. Those little shoes just pop out at the end of, the armrest, because visually, it looks good. And I'm fine with this. It just looks right.
Jimmy: And only if crazy people 70 years later would read every one of these things would anyone ever notice. And then it's up to them.
April 17. this is another long sequence, so Peppermint Patty's team feels put out because they don't have baseball caps, even though they beat Charlie Brown's team. Lucy says something like, So what? At least we have ball caps. And the rest of Peppermint Patty's team is very upset about this. So Marcie has decided to try to make baseball caps for them. And she makes a variety of different kinds. This one we now see is just Peppermint Patty in a giant baseball cap, like ten times the size it should be. She's over her eyes and she says, “Marcie, why don't you stop making these dumb baseball caps? Do something else with. Your evenings. Do your homework or read or something. Marcie. Marcie?” Then in the last panel, we see Peppermint Patty just completely swallowed up by the giant baseball cap. “Where is everybody?”
Jimmy: Did I pick this one?
Michael: Someone is guilty.
Harold: Yeah. I didn't.
Jimmy: I think I picked it because I just think the big hat is ridiculous.
Michael: Well, the whole week is sight gags with another stupid hat every day, right?
Harold: Yeah. And one thing, I keep pointing out these visual things, but one thing that is also incredibly 70s by this point is the pointer on the balloons where Schulz will drop down a line and then do this little curvy thing that goes, like, right into the middle of the line instead of it coming to a point. I will say that so uniquely Schulz
Jimmy: It is. I like it like panels two, three, and that that looks okay to me. The first one, that type of pointer always sort of bothered me a little bit.
Harold: And as much as Schulz just imprinted me and I love Schulz I remember as a kid being bugged by these things, he's like, Why don't these come to a point? Why do they curve in? Now I can see it's a faster way just to do the drawing. Because you don't have to come to the perfect point. You just have to hit the edge of the line of the pointer. And for some reason, as a little kid, that was one visual thing that bugged me about Peanuts was that he was doing that. I don't know why it bothers me.
Jimmy: More now that you mentioned it. however, now I notice it more often than I ever did, but definitely some of them just don't look great.
April 21. Peppermint Patty has a plan. She's going to go to the local baseball team. I guess it's a minor league team or something, or maybe it's the Twins. She's going to get a free promotional hat and then sneak back out and go through enough times to get a promotional baseball cap for everyone on her team. So here she is. “Stand here by this wall. Marcie, this is my plan. I'll go through the gate and get a free baseball cap. Then I'll climb down this wall, give you the cap, and go around through the gate again.” Marcie says “Nine times? I think you're doing wrong, sir.” Peppermint Patty says, y”ou want a baseball cap, don't you, Marcie?” And then we see Marcie left alone by the wall at the very beat up old baseball stadium. And she says to herself, “I just know I'm being drawn into a web of crime.
Michael: I like this one because Marcie is so out of it that she can't see the difference between a crime and gaming the system, which is perfectly legit, especially for a kid.
Jimmy: Yeah, right.
Harold: Exactly. And I love this because this is a thing that happens. Talk about peer pressure and stuff. As a kid growing up, I could totally relate with Marcie that you got the friend who's a little more adventurous, who's going to try stuff you shouldn't be doing, and you kind of get pulled into it one way or another, and you're like this moral quandary. Do I skip out with my buddy here who's doing something they shouldn't be doing? Could totally relate to that.
Jimmy: I wish I could. I am always the one doing the wrong thing. It is no one’s fault but my own.
Harold: You could say Schulz is making a little bit of a commentary here. That, we're talking about the building crumbling. Liz, you said it's because of the infrastructure and the schools and all of that. Well, it's like world, this building is falling apart. The plaster is coming off and showing the bricks behind it because society, is breaking down because of what Peppermint Patty is doing.
Michael: But iIt's clearly less than a minor league team because essentially it's free, right?
Jimmy: Oh, yeah. I guess it would have to be for her plan to work.
Jimmy: So maybe it's that green grass league. Yeah. Well, whether or not it works, whether or not they get busted, all of this is going to have to be left for another day because I think, we've come to the end of our time together. So what do you guys think? That, we stop it right here.
Michael: Got a lot to do next time.
Jimmy: We got a lot to do, but we had a lot to talk about. It was important stuff. Okay. All right. So if you guys have any important stuff you want to tell us, you can again do it on social media, Instagram, Threads, Twitter. We're at Unpack Peanuts. Facebook. Unpacking Peanuts. You can email us by just writing to UnpackingPeanuts@gmail.com. You could visit our website where you could buy us a mud pie, buy one of our books, check out the obscurity page, do all kinds of cool stuff. You can even call or text our hotline. What's that number there, Liz?
Liz: That number is 717-219-4162.
Jimmy: So give us a call because, I worry when I don't hear from you. so that's it for this week. We will see you next week. From Michael and Harold. This is Jimmy. Be of good cheer.
Michael and Harold: Yes, be of good cheer.
VO: Unpacking Peanuts is copyright Jimmy Gownley, Michael Cohen and Harold Buchholz. Produced and edited by Liz Sumner. Music by Michael Cohen. Additional Voiceover by Aziza Shukralla Clark. For more from the show, follow Unpack Peanuts on Instagram and Twitter. Unpacking Peanuts on Facebook and YouTube. For more about Jimmy, Michael and Harold, visit UnpackingPeanuts.com. Have a wonderful day and thanks for listening.