1997 Part 1- Every Child Should Be Issued a Dog and a Banjo

Jimmy: Hey everybody, welcome back to the show. This is Unpacking Peanuts, the world's foremost and only board certified Beatles, Tolkien, Salinger, James Joyce, Laurel and Hardy, It's a Wonderful Life, Quentin Tarantino, and R.E.M themed podcast that occasionally mentions Peanuts. And I'll be your host for the proceedings. My name is Jimmy Gownley. I'm also a cartoonist. I did things like Amelia Rules, Seven Good Reasons not to Grow up and the Dumbest Idea Ever. Joining me, as always, are my pals, co hosts and fellow cartoonists. 

He's a playwright and a composer, both for the band Complicated People, as well as for this very podcast. He's the co creator of the original comic book Price Guide, the original editor for Amelia Rules, and the creator of such great strips as Strange Attractors, A Gathering Spells and Tangled River. It's Michael Cohen.

Michael: Say hey.

Jimmy: And he's the executive producer and writer of Mystery Science Theater 3000, a former Vice president of Archie Comics and the creator of the Instagram sensation Sweetest Beasts, Harold Buchholz.

Michael: Hello.

Jimmy: I'm making sure everything runs smoothly is producer and editor, Liz Sumner.

Liz: Ciao.

Jimmy: Well, guys, listen, I have some, some old business that's been eating away at me that I have to talk about before we start. So as I mentioned in our little intro, we're a full service podcast. We cover a lot of topics. And last episode I was thrilled a listener wrote in and said that because I'm a big REM fan, you may not remember that Charlie Brown's favorite REM would be Automatic for the People, which I heartily agreed to. We remember that. I still, agree with that. But I should have mentioned at the time, REM has written the most Charlie Brown song ever written and it's the one everybody knows. Losing My Religion is the most. It's about a guy standing in a corner with a crush on someone that he can't talk to and doesn't even know if they know he is alive. So Losing My Religion I would like to maintain as the most, or a Charlie Brown song that's ever been Charlie Brown. So if anyone else has any other, suggestions out there, let us know.

Michael: Okay, well, what is the most Charlie Brown Beatles song?

Jimmy: Oh, I'm a loser.

Michael: I'm a loser. We could do that for every character. Lucy in the sky, with Diamonds.

Harold: Of course, it's no business like old business.

Jimmy: So I just wanted to, Start with that. but here we are in 1997, getting ever closer to the end. So if you want to follow along, the first thing you got to do is sign up for the Great Peanuts reread over at unpackingPeanuts.com. that'll get you one email a month letting you know what strips we're covering. And then, just go over to Go Comics and you're going to have to fork over 4.99. Okay, sorry. It's a, you know, people gotta eat. All right, so anyway, you could find the strips over on Go Comics or you could buy one of the Fantagraphics books or if you're clever, find it elsewhere. And then you can follow along with us. But right now, let's get to it. 1997,

January 1st. Charlie Brown and Linus are standing outside. And Charlie Brown proudly presents Linus with, a baseball he's just purchased. And he says to Linus, see, it's an autographed Joe Shlabotnik baseball. Linus takes it and examines it closely and says, I don't think so, Charlie Brown. This isn't Joe's signature, it's a forgery. And Charlie Brown says, good grief. Then he leans up against a tree saying, they cheated a little kid. An innocent, trusting, hero worshiping little kid. Me. 

Jimmy: I wanted to talk about this sequence. This is a little sequence where Charlie Brown, and I believe it started last year. Well, obviously it started last year. This is January 1st. But, the Charlie Brown goes to like a mall sports memorabilia show and gets an autograph show, Shalbotnik ball. And I have to confess, do you guys remember in the 90s, this was huge. Like the fake autographs at ah, mall stands does.

Liz: Wasn't OJ Part of that?

Jimmy: he was actually signing it. Like I have a, Cindy Crawford framed photo that was absolutely, definitely not signed by Cindy Crawford. Just somebody scribbled on it and then someone else gave it to me for Christmas. But they were rampant in the 90s, so it was.

Harold: I didn't realize it was the the scandal that you're saying it was that that many people were just like cranking out fake autographs.

Jimmy: Yeah, yeah. Because you could go from one mall to the other and the autograph, they would have similar photos for a lot because there was all the same celebrities and, and yeah, signatures didn't match at all.

Michael: I never understood this, this autographs business. How do you authenticate it? I mean, it's just too easy to forge.

Harold: I think you go Ask the guy at the Orange Julius whether it's real or not. This, strip I picked, very first strip of the year, right in the middle of this. The thing that I thought was just hilarious is here's Joe Shlabotnik, who nobody considers, a, worthy hero to worship except Charlie Brown, but apparently Linus.

Michael: Knows what his signature looks like.

Harold: Well, that's it. How on earth is Linus? Even though he's an expert on a lot of things, how is he an expert on social. I thought that was hilarious. Schulz needs somebody to set it up, and so. Well, it's got to be Linus.

Jimmy: Gotta be Linus, right? It would seem reasonable.

Harold: Joe. Joe signs with a, curlicue at the end.

Liz: Peppermint Patty might know what Joe's signature looks like.

Jimmy: Oh, yeah, I could see that. That could have been.

Michael: Well, but she's not gonna be interested in a loser.

Jimmy: It could be. Yeah. Actually, here's how you.

Harold: Well, she likes Charlie Brown.

Jimmy: All right, in our regular segment of Fixing, the work of Geniuses, he could have spelled Shlabotnik wrong. Ah, that's how.

Liz: That's it.

Michael: All right. Once again, we improve on Charles Schulz.

Harold: Yeah, if that's true. I guess if Linus knew how that was spelled. But I suppose that's likely right.

Michael: Yeah.

Harold: Yeah, I mean, it should be. S C, H is probably an easy mistake. Just like Schulz.

Jimmy: Right, Schulz. Yeah, there you go.

Harold: And people would always misspell his name. My gosh, he was so famous. And there was a tz in many newspapers years into this strip.

Jimmy: So this continues. And here on 

January 2nd, Charlie Brown goes back to the, card show, and he's brought Snoopy along. He hands the ball over to the guy behind the counter and says, yes, sir, I think you sold me a forgery. This is not Joe Shlabotnik's signature. The guy who apparently reacts and says to Charlie Brown. Something that makes Charlie Brown say, get lost? You sell me a fake autograph and then tell me to get lost. What am I going to do about it? And then he points to Snoopy and says, let me introduce you to my world famous attack dog. And Snoopy's getting ready to throw hands. 

Jimmy: Oh, man, that picture of Snoopy cracked me up. And that, I'm sure, is the reaction you would get if you go to one of those things and ask for your money back. I think it's a buyer beware situation.

Harold: Yeah. the tag on your baseball that has the disclaimer, no refunds.

Jimmy: I did buy a legitimate baseball. Steve Carlton, who was a famous pitcher for the Phillies, hall of Fame pitcher, came to the mall near us and autographed stuff for a day. And I didn't get to go for whatever reason. I was sick, I think. but we went to the store like later that week and they had him sign a whole bunch of baseballs that you could just buy. But I was a little kid and I didn't know what I was doing, so I just took it and then like, drew over the signature because I wanted it to look bolder, thereby completely ruining it. 

January 3rd. so now in the middle of the scene, a little kid comes up who's wearing a visor as if he's like an accountant or in an old 30s movie for the mob or maybe like someone who works at a casino. He comes over and he says, hey, kid, do you want a job? And Charlie Brown says, a what? And he says, come on, I'll show you. My hand is killing me from all that autographing. And Charlie Brown says, you mean. And they follow him back and there is a whole stack of baseballs wherever this kid has taken them. And he says, sure, I have to autograph all this stuff. See? Are you a good speller? The kid continues, yesterday somebody wanted a Joe Shlabotnik or something. Give me a break. To which Charlie Brown says, I can spell Shlabotnik. 

Jimmy: I like that. Charlie Brown seems like he's gonna consider this for a while. He's just interested in seeing the inner world.

Harold: It's on the inside. Yeah. How this all plays out.

Liz: Well, he needs money to buy gloves.

Jimmy: That's true.

Michael: He needs money to buy a Joe Shlabotnik.

Jimmy: Signed baseball at a more reputable stand down the other end of the mall.

Harold: I like how it looks like Charlie Brown is just standing still in front of the guy who sold the thing who's just called him out. And you want a job, kid. Keep your enemies close.

Jimmy: So, yeah, so that is, the end really of that sequence. He shows him the things that he's going to be autographing. Then Charlie Brown leaves.

Michael: So we never see Snoopy be beating up the guy doing.

Harold: No.

Jimmy: That would have been an amazing sequence, though. I I him cracking his knuckles and getting ready for action is just. I love it. He's so cute. I have to say, too. And maybe it's me, but like, there seems to be points in I think what it is. I'm, talking about the tremor. And sometimes it does not, I do not even notice it. And so much of the time, it's a Charlie Brown strip because he nails those heads. Those unbelievably difficult round heads are always crisp and clear.

Harold: Yeah, I really don't get that. I don't know how he's doing that, given, everything else that we're seeing here. Seriously, how does he do it?

Jimmy: No, I don't know. It's a mystery.

Harold: I mean, the only thing that it could possibly be is speed. But then speed works against you sometimes with a dip pen, and I don't know.

Jimmy: Well, it could.

Harold: Remarkable.

Jimmy: Maybe those are also. And I don't know that this would work, but maybe these are also the marks he's making where he's holding his right hand with his left hand.

Harold: And then, you know, but if, you know, whenever you're drawing a curved line, because, for people who are artists or cartoonists who do this sort of a thing, your hand moves in a certain arc, right?

Jimmy: Yeah.

Harold: And at some point, that perfect arc runs out. You know, it's only turning it the other way, really. It's a. Maybe only 60 degrees of a curve. And then either it's super risky to keep going because it's not natural and it's not going to follow the actual curve, or you've got to do something else.

Jimmy: Turn the page or whatever.

Harold: You know, if you were using a brush, it's. It's a little different because you're, you're, you're using your. Well, this is another thing. You know, some people say an artist who's working with brush in particular is drawing from the shoulder. They're holding the wrist and, and everything. Yeah, it's the shoulder and a little, Little bit of elbow action. And so that's why you can get a really smooth line, because it's not the fine turning of a wrist, which has a very, you know, small radius.

Jimmy: Although, the advantage Schulz has with a pen is that he's able to feel that, you know, put the pen on the paper and feel that resistance. I think if he was using a brush and had to have, like, no resistance on the paper, the line would be out of control all the time, I think.

Harold: Yeah. I have no idea, given the situation he was dealing with, what that would look like. You know, would you just lock your wrist, literally tape your wrist down or wherever that tremor is?

Jimmy: Yeah.

Harold: And then you move everything above where the tremor exists. I don't know. I don't know what it would look like if he was trying to work with a brush. But. But knowing what his tool is. This is a miracle that he's getting this over and over again.

Jimmy: Yeah. 

January 25th, Snoopy's atop the doghouse, lying there just enjoying the day. And Lucy comes over and says, you are of no importance. Did you know that? She continues, you're only the tiniest speck in an enormous universe. And then she leaves. And Snoopy contemplates it for a moment, then lies back down and thinks that I might as well go back to sleep.

Liz: Did you pick this, Michael?

Michael: Yes, I did.

Jimmy: Brilliant. You like that one?

Michael: well, this is kind of a timeless Peanuts strip. This could have come in any period.

Jimmy: Absolutely. And your theme of sleeping again?

Michael: Yeah, sleeping. Very important.

Jimmy: Very important in the world of Peanuts.

Harold: You like that picture of Snoopy in the second panel where he's kind of just looking up.

Harold: Thoughtfully into the universe.

Jimmy: Oh, my God. Ah, the thoughtful look thing. I was watching a, a, little YouTube video about Marlon Brando and they talk about how his signature look of kind of looking up and contemplating things before the next line is him looking for the cue cards. And this goes all the way back to on the Waterfront. Once you see it, you can't unsee. Looks like, every. Even the Godfather looks like an episode of Saturday Night Live. Once you start realizing, oh no.

Harold: It's wild. That's hilarious. Wow, that's like Curly. Curly would, would do his little face slaps and running up and down because he couldn't remember the next line. The Three Stooges. It was. It's amazing how some things we love most come from the most unexpected places.

Jimmy: Really.

Michael: I'm going to throw in a little topical reference I, I read today. All right, I'm just gonna make a statement here. Please give Dick Van Dyke an honorary Academy Award.

Jimmy: Let's do it.

Michael: He said today. That's the only thing left on his bucket list.

Jimmy: Are you kidding?

Michael: He's 99.

Jimmy: Oh man.

Michael: Just give it to him.

Jimmy: Give it to him.

Michael: Anybody out there on the award committee, just give it to him.

Jimmy: Yeah, we got to do this. We love Dick Van Di. by God, that, that channel. I watch it too much like the All Dick Van Dyke channel. I keep waiting for the episode where it's Buddy's bar mitzvah, but they never show it where.

Harold: Oh, wow.

Jimmy: Sorrel man and boy.

Liz: I don't understand why FitzWilly isn't a Christmas movie that, that gets watched every year.

Jimmy: FitzWilly?

Michael: Yeah.

Liz: You don't know FitzWilly?

Jimmy: No.

Michael: Did we.

Liz: Oh, something. A, pleasure for, for you guys. Next December.

Jimmy: Get out of town. All right, I want to know this. it's a Dick Van Dyke Christmas movie. Yes, yes.

Liz: With.

Jimmy: With.

Liz: Oh, golly, what's 99's name?

Harold: Barbara Feldon.

Michael: what's her name?

Liz: Barbara Feldon.

Jimmy: Yeah, I, ah, think that we have. I would know that. I'm sorry, you must be mistaken. That would be my favorite thing in the world. Oh, my God, that's amazing.

Harold: I saw it a couple years ago on someone's recommendation.

Jimmy: Really? This is, It's like Christmas early. I'm gonna watch it. I love 99.

Liz: What was your opinion of it?

Harold: I was okay. It was all right. Yeah, it was. I enjoyed it.

Liz: Good.

Jimmy: All right, well, I'm going to. I'm going to check that out, because I love 99. She was no Batgirl, but she was close.

Harold: Okay, when we're getting into weird Dick Van Dyke movies, I just want to throw in one question. If you guys have seen this, there's a film in, like, the late 60s where he chooses to grow a beard. He lives in New York City, and everybody thinks of him as this hippie beatnik.

Harold: And it's the strangest movie. The whole world blows up because he grows up. It's called Some Kind of a Nut, and it is just the strangest 1969 movie. And Angie Dickinson is in it. And yeah, that's the whole premise is he chooses to grow, like, a Van Dyke beard and everything.

Liz: Oh, that's the one where everybody quit smoking, is it?

Harold: No, that's Cold Turkey.

Liz: Okay.

Harold: Yeah, yeah, he was in a lot of odd.

Liz: Maybe we're finding out why he hasn't gotten his Oscar.

Jimmy: Maybe not. we're gonna have to look at.

Liz: The lifetime achievement Emmy.

Jimmy: 99 and policewoman in two movies. That is a double feature, my friends, right there. Wow. Well, there you go, Dick Van Dyke.

Michael: All right, that's our next podcast.

Jimmy: All right, we're doing it.

Liz: Okay.

Jimmy: But right now it's 

January 29th, and Charlie Brown is giving a presentation, to the front of his class. And of course, he has brought his dog Snoopy. That is what he's giving the presentation about. And he says to the class, and I conclude my report by offering this suggestion. As soon as a child is born, he or she should be issued a dog and a banjo. Snoopy's ears go straight up. And Charlie Brown looks to his teacher and says, ma'am, that's right. A family of eight. Eight dogs and eight banjos. Yes, ma'am. We're talking happiness here?

Harold: Does this seem like Charlie Brown to you? That this is. This would be, a thing.

Michael: Isn't this a Mark Twain quote?

Jimmy: No, this is a Schulz quote, and it's, like, hugely famous. If you type in right now. I bet if you typed in Google right now. Famous Charles Schulz quote. I bet this would be the first one. But anyway, it's. It's very famous among people who like that sort of thing.

Harold: I mean, it's interesting that you say this is a famous. This is 1997. And I get the sense that almost everything I'm seeing here lives within the strip. Nothing broke into the culture that I know.

Jimmy: I mean, that's what I'm saying. There were posters with this on it. Not, When I was at the TV station. I knew someone who had it hanging up in their cubicle.

Harold: Wow, that's. That's cool. Yeah. No, this was a. This was a new one to me now.

Jimmy: They bought it at the mall, and it was autographed.

Harold: Oh, no. There you go.

Michael: Well, I have a banjo hanging on the wall. It doesn't make me happy because.

Jimmy: Well, it's because you don't have the dog.

Michael: No, it's not the dog. I look at it and I go, I really can't play the banjo.

Liz: Well, but if you had been given it at birth, maybe. 

Michael: That's true.

Harold: Yeah. You wouldn't have to think of those things. It was just a part of who you were.

Jimmy: I would certainly love to have been issued a banjo at any point in life. That would be amazing.

Michael: Yeah. You're an only child. My sister would have been playing the banjo, which driven me crazy.

Liz: She was playing the bassoon instead.

Harold: But, yeah, when I saw this, I was. I was like, this is interesting. you know, he. He's constantly hearing Sally come up with all of these life philosophies, and then I guess he's done it a little bit before in the past. I'm trying to think of what it was, but this was a little bit of a surprise that he's found something he wants to share with the world. He's. He's got a way of seeing things that need to be. That needs to be shared. I thought that was cool

Jimmy: I also get the feeling that behind the scenes, Schulz was very proud. He m. Said that at some point and was very proud of it.

Liz: Yes.

Harold: Yeah, Yeah, I can see that.

Michael: Yeah. I think this was said by Schulz before this strip.

Jimmy: Yeah, absolutely. That's how I feel, too. Made a little note going, oh, yeah, I want to. I want to use something.

Liz: Maybe it should have been a two panel strip, though.

Jimmy: Yeah, maybe.

Liz: The family of eight dogs and eight banjos.

Harold: Now, let me get this straight. So the Dionne quintuplets.

Jimmy: That's a lot of banjos. All right, so this continues, 

January 30th. Charlie Brown and Snoopy are snuggling up in the old bean bag chair watching tv. And Sally says, some kid at school today said as soon as we're born, we should be issued a dog and a banjo. Charlie Brown says, that was me. And Sally says, all my friends think you're crazy. Charlie Brown says, you don't have any friends. And then Sally says, if I had any friends, they'd all think you were crazy.

Harold: And then it struck me, I never thought of this. Sally really doesn't have any friends.

Jimmy: She had that friend with the long hair and the hat. The margarine container hat. 

Liz: from camp.

Harold: Yeah. And now she's on her own. And. Yeah. I mean, she's got her sweet baboo who puts up with her because he's Linus.

Jimmy: Yeah.

Harold: But, yeah, she doesn't have any friends. I'm like, oh, my gosh, Sally.

Jimmy: Poor Sally.

Harold: You just, you just, you just live in life on your own terms all by yourself. And every once in a while you have a sounding board and your brother. And, that's kind of sad.

Jimmy: Yeah. Well, we love Sally, so she has us as her friends. 

February 2nd, it's a Sunday, and it starts off with Woodstock cleaning the bird bath with the Zamboni for ice hockey. And the second panel, the birds and Snoopy are standing for at attention because some song is playing, which we assume is the national anthem. And then the action starts in the next tier and Snoopy has the puck and birds are flying everywhere. And then the birds get the puck back and Snoopy goes flying. And then of course, it's between periods, so the Zamboni has to come out, clean the ice again. And then we're back at it. And the birds go flying everywhere. And Snoopy's attacking. And then of course, it's time to clean with the Zamboni. And then we got three more panels of rock em, sock em, bird bath hockey. And then in the last panel, the disheveled birds and Snoopy missing some teeth says best game we've ever had.

Michael: The birds are missing some teeth and they don't have teeth.

Jimmy: They are.

Harold: If you have to be missing teeth, you got to have some to start with in the first place. Yeah.

Michael: Well, this is actually a really good strip. I mean, he's done that little smile with broken teeth before.

Liz: I never would have understood this strip at all if it weren't for your description.

Jimmy: Oh, really?

Liz: Never.

Jimmy: Well, good. I have done a service today. I love Zambonis. So cute.

Michael: he sure gets his, money's worth out of Zamboni. Like, I'd never heard of a Zamboni till I started reading Peanuts.

Jimmy: I'm assuming I still wouldn't know what a Zamboni is if it wasn't for Peanuts. I don't watch hockey, so if it.

Harold: Didn't have a cool name, I wonder if he'd ever brought it up.

Jimmy: No, never. Never. I don't think, man.

Harold: Well, I do recommend to our listeners who are listening and not looking at the strips, this is one worth checking out. February 2nd, 1997. especially if you can find it in color.

Jimmy: Yeah, the color is great, 

Liz: but Jimmy's description was pretty darn wonderful.

Jimmy: Well, thank you.

Harold: Hopefully that whets your interest.

Jimmy: Yeah. 

February 13th. Linus is back in school with Lydia, and he has made her a valentine. He turns around and says, here, I made you a valentine. She looks at it closely as Linus says, see, I wrote a little poem, and then I drew some hearts around it. To which Lydia says, it's in black and white.

Michael: I picked this just because I haven't seen Lydia in a while. And this is probably the least funny Lydia joke.

Liz: I think it's wonderfully funny.

Jimmy: Oh, are you kidding? I love it. Oh, my God. I think, it speaks to a certain type of modern young person that cannot contemplate things in black and white.

Harold: Yeah. It just makes you think TV shows and movies and comic strips.

Michael: Okay, all right.

Harold: In black and white. But I love Linus's commitment in the first panel. He is completely turned around on his desk with his knees facing the back of his seat. He's not just, like, tossing this over his shoulder.

Jimmy: Yeah, yeah.

Harold: He's both hands presenting it to Lydia. And it's rejected, based on lack of color.

Jimmy: And, if any of our listeners want to give a shot of, what Linus's poem might have been, I'd like to hear that.

Harold: The thing that struck me on this Lydia one was it seemed the roughest. And of course, that might make sense, given what we know Schulz is going up against with his. With his drawing styles. But Lydia always has seemed to have this real, very clean put together look.

Jimmy: Yeah.

Harold: with with the hair and the. Maybe, it's in how he's coloring the hair. But it just seems. She seems a little more disheveled, a little more 

Liz: jangly.

Jimmy: Definitely. Yeah. The blacks are jangly, but the body is.

Harold: The grunge influences refer to the poem.

Michael: What rhymes with Lydia? I really pity ya.

Harold: yeah, ask Joe. Groucho Marx will tell you.

Liz: Chlamydia.

Jimmy: Oh, God. That's not a flower. There was a sign in every dorm when I was in college that said, chlamydia is not a flower. And then the phone number and address of. Of the healthcare center.

Harold: Wow, public school. Yeah, look that one up.

Jimmy: Hey. After 12 years of Catholic school, I was like, all right, what kind of place is this? 

February 16th, Snoopy is decked out as, the Revolutionary War patriot. And, he. It's Valley Forge. It's, obviously winter. You can see his feet are all wrapped up, up like the classic American story. and he's warming himself at a fire, and then he walks away and says, I have to know. And we see him now trudging with his musket in his little tricorner hat, and he says, here's the world famous patriot soldier at Valley Forge. I must see General Washington. I have to know. He's trudging across the snow to get there. Then finally he arrives at the, the cabin of Washington. He drops to his knees and says, tell me, sir, I have to know. Did the mail arrive? Did I get any valentines?

Harold: No.

Jimmy: Would they have been sending valentines in the Revolutionary period? I don't know.

Harold: these drawings of Snoopy in the Revolutionary outfit with the. Yeah, like, almost like the bandaged feet.

Jimmy: Yeah, they're.

Harold: There's something about them that he's so covered, except for the face, that the costume plays a huge part in the artwork. More so I think, than even like the World War Flying Ace thing. You really feel like Snoopy is this war veteran of the Revolutionary War period. And it's a little bit jarring that he's. He's actually speaking to George Washington. There's one strip we didn't pick where he literally gets thrown out. When he asks George Washington, he has some idea, some great idea for the troops, and, he's tossed out. It's like, oh, wow. Schulz is having George Washington throw Snoopy.

Jimmy: I like the world. Or the Revolutionary, war outfit. I was always a big fan of this period when I was a kid, like, reading about it and stuff like that. I may have had a tricorner hat that I. I tried to wear around the neighborhood once, then left it in my room wisely for the rest of summer.

Harold: Didn't go over as you expected.

Jimmy: I remember Marnie Marquette looking at me blankly and then me just kind of going inside.

Liz: Good for Marnie.

Jimmy: Yeah.

Harold: Yeah. Usually hats come. You know, they rotate interest in cycles and that's one that hasn't really come back.

Jimmy: It's not coming back. We could bring it back. We could try.

Harold: Yeah, we could give it a go.

Liz: Because we have so much influence.

Jimmy: We have it, baby. Especially in the sartorial world. Everyone knows that's us.

Harold: We could put out an imprinted unpacking Peanuts three cornered hat.

Jimmy: That's it. Well, you could get a choice. You could get that or the, coonskin one.

Liz: Yes.

Jimmy: All right, well, how about we take, a break there and come back, check the mail, et cetera, and finish the rest of the strips. Does that sound good?

Liz: Sounds great.

Jimmy: Fabulous. We'll be right back.

BREAK

Liz: Hi, everyone. You've heard us rave about the Estabrook radio 914 and what episode would be complete without mention of the Fab Four? Now you can wear our obsessions proudly with unpacking Peanuts T shirts. We have a be of good cheer. Pen nib design. Along with the four of us crossing Abbey Road and of course Michael, Jimmy and Harold at the thinkin wall. Collect them all, trade them with your friends. Order your T shirts today@unpackingPeanuts.com store.

Jimmy: And we are back. Hey, Liz. I'm hanging out in the mailbox. Do we got anything?

Harold: We do.

Liz: We heard from a couple of people on YouTube today all.

Jimmy: Ah, right.

Liz: So first from icecreamhero2375, writes how I understand the cartoon logic in Peanuts. The plots should be mostly realistic most of the time. Except in It's Magic Charlie Brown, the adults are sometimes there off screen and sometimes not there at all. Snoopy can do pretty much anything the plot needs him to do. Sometimes they can read Snoopy's thoughts and sometimes they can't. Snoopy uses Charlie Brown's parents credit card. That is my head canon. The kids can do absurd sight gags like Snoopy, but every so often and they don't quite go to Looney Tunes levels. School buildings can talk.

Jimmy: All right, so this is in response to us doing the Peanuts poetics thing.

Liz: Yes, yes.

Jimmy: Can I tell you wanna talk about being creeped out? So just to explain the setup I have here, it's my drafting table flattened, I got the laptop in front of me and the microphone on that. And then I have propped up my iPad, and that's what I read the strips off of. So the iPad is not being. Not recording anything. It's just, you know, me reading the strips off of. So when we were doing that discussion and we're talking about, oh, we should come up with it, what is it called? The Poetics. Is that the right word? Is that the right word? Later that afternoon, I just went on YouTube. Recommended for me the first thing.

Harold: What are the.

Jimmy: What are poetics? And it was a. It was. It's a Harvard lecture. Understand? It was the poetics of something or another. And it actually really does explain it. I should give us a link. I'm like, oh, that was really helpful in a totalitarian spy.

Michael: Wait, you're saying these computers are listening when they're not on?

Jimmy: M. It was on. It was on. Yeah.

Michael: Hello? who’s there?

Harold: Good evening.

Jimmy: I don't like it, even though it was helpful information.

Michael: That is scary.

Liz: That is very scary.

Michael: Wow.

Liz: And, Ice Cream Hero continues by saying, you asked if Calvin and Hobbes ever violated the rule that Hobbes is only alive to Calvin. It never did. But in the arc where they push the car out of the driveway, you can see Hobbs running after it out the window when Calvin's mom's back is turned to the window.

Jimmy: Oh, cute. Well, first off, I love window humor. I've done that in Amelia, where the things going on in the background and the serious stuff. I love that. That never doesn't work. So that's cool. Yeah.

Harold: Yeah. You've had at least one defenestration.

Jimmy: Yeah, at least one. Oh, speaking of weird things I've done in that Poetics discussion, Michael's example was, well, could you put a talking cat in Amelia? And we had, like, a thoughtful discussion. Perhaps it's the situation. I had a talking polar bear in Amelia, and I didn't even remember.

Liz: and one other comment, also on YouTube, from Steven Edwards, who gives us his term for what we were discussing. And he says, codifying the narrative logic of Peanuts.

Jimmy: Oh, that sounds pretty fancy. I like that PhD thesis. Yeah, that definitely is.

Liz: So that's it from the mail.

Jimmy: Thank you all for commenting and writing and calling. If you want to do that, you can write us at unpackingPeanuts@gmail.com and if you want to leave a message on the hotline or just send, a text, it's 717-219-4162. And we'd love to hear from You. Because remember, when I don't hear, I worry. How about we get back to the strips?

Liz: All right.

February 21st. Charlie Brown looks like he's back at the same place that sold him the badged Joe Shlabotnik ball. But I guess it's a sporting goods store in the mall. And he says, yes, sir, I'd like to see a new baseball glove. Could I try that one there? As he points to one in the cabinet, and then he tries it, and this one sends him spinning. He, like, flips in the air. It feels so good on his hand. And he says, I'll take it.

Michael: Whoa. You read that completely different than I did.

Jimmy: Oh, okay.

Michael: I was thinking. Yeah, well, it didn't really make sense to me. I thought because every time he's on the mound.

Jimmy: Yeah.

Michael: He gets knocked over by a ball.

Jimmy: Right.

Michael: And so he tried out being knocked over by the ball with that glove on.

Jimmy: I think you're probably right.

Harold: I think you're right, too. It took me a, it took me a long time to get there. This was a huge head scratcher.

Jimmy: I thought it was my way until while you were saying that, I looked. Yeah, he's not smiling right upside down, so. I think you're right, Michael.

Michael: And why did you pick it?

Jimmy: I have no idea why I picked it. I must have picked it by accident. But.

Harold: I think I might have picked it because it was such a head scratcher. I wanted to hear you guys thoughts on it. I, I, But I, I agree with you, Michael. I think that is what Schulz was going for, but I think he's asking a lot of his readers.

Liz: Yeah.

Harold: In this one.

Jimmy: Well, I've read, like, thousands of them aloud.

Harold: Ah.

Jimmy: And I didn't get it. So, like, you know, some sort of, you know, hedge fund manager in Hoboken who sees it, two seconds in it for his breakfast. I don't think is, is going to be able to figure out what that is, but I think Michael's 100% right. That is what it is.

Michael: All right, moving on.

March 1st. Okay, so Snoopy is setting up a camera to take a group picture of his bird friends. And he looks annoyed. And there are like, what, two dozen birds on this little tree? And Snoopy says in the back row there, let's take the cap off. Okay. And then when we look over at the tree, we do see one tiny little bird wearing a backwards baseball cap, which is also very 90s. 

Jimmy: That's cute.

Liz: That's adorable.

Harold: And none of them are smiling.

Jimmy: No. All very stoically waiting for their photo.

Liz: And why don't we worry about dime a dozen birds the same way we worry about dime a dozen Snoopies?

Michael: Well, I don't like it when he cheapens his characters by having too many of them exactly the same.

Jimmy: Well, what about the birds though?

Michael: Don't like it.

Jimmy: You don't like the multiple birds?

Michael: Well, they're all Woodstock all.

Jimmy: Uh-huh. Right.

Michael: So then I'm not just Woodstock a dime a dozen, which I know. Like he's supposed to be exceptionally small.

Harold: So is this Woodstock's family tree? Literally, I, I would have loved to.

Jimmy: Have drawn this, like, to have created like I think at some do, you know, when you're doing something and eventually it just loses all meaning, you know? Right. You say the same word too many times and it just becomes sound. I, like by the time you've drawn the 13th one of these weird bird drawings, I mean, really zoom in and look at those birds.

Harold: Yeah.

Jimmy: It would be almost meditative in its abstractions, I think.

Michael: Yeah, but you just copy and paste.

Harold: Yeah.

Jimmy: Right. These days. Absolutely.

Harold: Well, it looks like he's, he's burning through these. And you get a variety of looks that you normally don't get in the strip. If he's got the Beagle Scouts or just Woodstock. This is quite a range of wonky looking little birds within the structure of a Woodstock drawing, which is kind of interesting.

Jimmy: Nice zipatone on the tree. Because it's a skinny little tree to zipatone.

Liz: a skinny little tree.

March 16. Schroeder is pounding away at the piano and Snoopy's listening. And this is a Sunday strip. And Lucy is in the next panel. She's laying on the piano in her classic position. And Schroeder, is looking at what, looks like, sheet music. And Lucy says to him, what was that you were playing? And Schroeder says, it's called Peanuts Gallery. And Lucy says, what is? A new piece composed by Ellen Taaffe Zwilich. We're all in it. What do you mean? We're all in it, says Lucy. And Schroeder says it has a great beginning. Schroeder's Beethoven Fantasy. Then there's Lullaby for Linus, Snoopy does the samba and Charlie Brown's Lament. Then there's Lucy freaks out and Peppermint Patty and Marcie lead the parade. Lucy's just taking this in. And then Schroeder hands the, sheet music to Lucy and says the world premiere will be at Carnegie Hall. Here, look at it yourself. And she looks at it and says, my part should be longer.

Michael: Let me make a comment about this. Sometimes I question why somebody picked a strip.

Jimmy: Uh-huh.

Michael: Like that last one. Why didn't you pick that strip? My question here is, Jimmy, why didn't you pick this strip? This is, like, the most out there concept he's ever done. And yet Harold and I picked it. Yet, Jimmy, you somehow did not notice that this is, like, one of the weirdest Peanuts strips ever.

Jimmy: I'm sorry, Micha. I didn't know. I guess I was tired.

Harold: Yeah.

Jimmy: I don't know why I didn't pick it. I like it. I certainly like it.

Michael: I don't like it.

Jimmy: I know you don't like it because it mentions them as characters. It drives you crazy. I'm sure you were up at night.

Michael: This is so far out of the rules.

Jimmy: Michael staring off his balcony. Hello, darkness, my old friend.

Michael: Yeah, well. But I wanted to, open a discussion on, cartoon or comic books where the characters realize they're in cartoons or comic books, which happens. It's never happened in Peanut. I think there might have been one reference.

Jimmy: Yeah, there is. Yeah.

Michael: Where they're aware that they're in a comic.

Jimmy: There's at least one where Schroeder asked to be transferred to a different comic strip. And there's one where Charlie Brown says, Lucy's eyes look like little dots of India ink.

Michael: Yeah, but this one's way, way, way out there.

Jimmy: Yeah. Well, this is an ad.

Michael: Yeah, this is an ad, but it's also. It can't fit in the universe. I mean, are they famous?

Harold: Yeah. It's interesting, Michael. You don't like having cartoon characters recognizing their cartoon characters.

Michael: No, but it's a part of the world if they do.

Harold: yeah, you're right. And I kind of like it because, there's so much you can do with the characters realizing they're cartoon characters. It does change the rules, but all of a sudden, there's a lot of things you can explore. Like my Sweetest Beasts. In my mind, my cartoon characters know they are cartoon characters, and they're living in their world, and they don't mind being cartoon characters and doesn't usually make a big difference, but they. They are aware, and it does give it a different dynamic that, I think is. Is. Is kind of rich. I like it.

Michael: Yeah. And. And I think the Bloom County. Something like Bloom County. I'm not sure, but I think he probably would have been able to have the characters refer to themselves as being in the newspaper.

Jimmy: Well, they do, yeah.

Harold: Well, there's that, that strip I mentioned where Bloom County's artist was, was, on vacation. And so they'd hired the guy, the cartoonist who'd done lots of gag cartoons for like, Parrot World and.

Jimmy: Yeah.

Harold: And with a totally different style. And then at the very last, very last panel, you got Opus kind of peeling up the bottom corner of the, the panel and apologizing.

Michael: Yeah. For me, this is really jarring. let me give an example of, somebody who did it in a way that it works.

Harold: Uh-huh.

Michael: As part of the world. may I refer you to Fantastic 4 Number 10, 1963.

Jimmy: And I'm certain it's going to hold up to you modern readers.

Michael: Well, Fantastic Four are reading a Fantastic Four comic.

Harold: Okay.

Michael: But in the story, they posit that Lee and Kirby are actually characters in the story. And they have a comic book. They're producing a comic book based on the Fantastic Four, which is what the Fantastic Four are reading.

Harold: Right. So it's not them. It's a comic book about them. we happen to be watching. Reading a comic book about them. Reading a comic book about them. That's not the comic book that we're reading.

Michael: It's.

Harold: We're reading them actually living their lives. Yeah.

Michael: And then Dr. Doom comes in to visit Lee and Kirby.

Liz: Well, and one of my favorite comics is Strange Attractors, where they have Spicy Space stories.

Jimmy: Right. Which is the most meta referencing comics that affect the real world out there?

Michael: It's meta, intentionally, I hope it was talking about the world of comics and the world of reality. But Peanuts is not.

Jimmy: Well, no, but here's the thing. And until it is a few more episodes, to try to fit this square peg in a round hole. But I think what the issue is is Peanuts is not a universe that has a consistent world from beginning to end. So to keep saying that it violates the world is pointless because the world will change the next day. The rules will reset. Because some fiction draws attention to the fact that it is unreal. And that's not a mistake. It's what they're doing on purpose. I mean, Schulz knows that this breaks, the reality, but he's broken the reality a hundred thousand times and doesn't care. He's not doing something and going, oh, crap. This. Now they can't figure out how to get to Mordor because it doesn't matter. It's not a world. It's not even a little bit of a world. It's like four lines Four right angles make up the entire Peanuts universe. Really?

Michael: Yeah. But I think there is some consistency in the 17,000 strips.

Jimmy: I don't think there is, because I think he's a, He's a helicopter when he needs to be, and he's not a helicopter when he doesn't.

Michael: I don't like it when that.

Jimmy: But whether you like it or not doesn't.

Harold: If there is consistency in personality and the inconsistencies.

Jimmy: Yeah, he said it a million times. They're a repertory company that I can use in any setting I want. If I want to make it a horror story, I can make it a horror story. If I want to make it, a pioneer epic, I can do that. That's what he is doing. That's what he means to do, so it can't be a mistake.

Harold: Well, that's a really interesting way to look at it. So he is casting his characters every day in whatever, story he wants to make. And if we look at it through that lens, he can change the rules for that given strip, and he has to make those decisions, like, for. For people like Michael who were saying, well, okay, but you got to have some level of consistency for us to be able to live in this world. Like, do the characters personalities change 180 degrees every time they take on a rule?

Jimmy: Yeah, it's like Looney Tunes. Bugs Bunny is consistently Bugs Bunny, whether he's in the Old west or in outer space.

Michael: Yeah, but this is not that kind of humor. I mean, imagine, okay, you have. The consistency of characters is one thing. I mean, if he. If he had a strip like a Sunday page, where all of a sudden Lucy was surrounded by admirers who are giving her flowers and telling her she's the most beautiful girl in the world, that wouldn't work.

Jimmy: Well, yeah, lots of things won't work.

Michael: Yeah, Well, I think this doesn't work because you read this and you go, what world did someone write?

Jimmy: There is no world.

Michael: A piece music about them.

Jimmy: this is an ad for this show. And, yeah, Schulz is intentionally making it an ad for this show. It's not a world.

Michael: It doesn't belong in the strip there. All right, I can see it as an ad. I mean, because clearly in the ad, they're selling products.

Harold: And for those of you wondering what we're talking about with the ad. So this composer, Ellen Zwilich. Well, it showed up earlier in the strip, when, Peppermint Patty and Marcie were at one of the Tiny Tots concerts. And I think Marcie mentions this Piece is by Ellen's Willis, who happens to be a woman. Basically, it's kind of the setup for that. And then she contacted Schulz. They became friends. When she got, an opportunity to write a piece for Carnegie Hall, and it was supposed to be children's music, she thought, hey, Peanuts. So she got in touch with Schulz and said, you know, is it okay if I do this? Inspired, by your characters. And he was thrilled. And so to support her, yeah, that's what he's doing.

Jimmy: All right, well, anyway, I'm gonna listen to good old Lucy, freaks out. That's gonna be my pick.

Liz: It should be longer.

Jimmy: Yeah.

Michael: To sum, up, I'm glad we discussed this, because I think this strip certainly is worth talking about.

Jimmy: Oh, absolutely.

Harold: Yeah.

Jimmy: And speaking of things worth talking about, 

March 10, the final appearance of Crybaby Boobie. Crybaby Boobie is playing against Snoopy out in the tennis court, and she's yelling, I won. I won. I'm the champion. I won. Hey, mom, I won. And then we just hard cut to a disgruntled and annoyed Snoopy walking away. And then on the last panel, for the only time, we see Crybaby Boobie's face and a little pain line generating from her leg, and she says, mom, I think that dog kicked me.

Michael: Who knew she looked exactly like Charlie Brown.

Jimmy: She's Charlie Brown in a wig, too. I kind of like that messed up hair. I think that I kind of like that look.

Liz: I talked to my hairdresser about that back in the 90s, but couldn’t get that.

Jimmy:  you wanted to get that?

Harold: The Courtney Love Crybaby Boobie Shag. you know, that's not what I was expecting. I was thinking more of a Sally. Yeah, but we normally see Crybaby Boobie with her head straight up. You see her nostrils, gigantic mouth, and this crazy hair all around the head. And, yeah, she looks very deflated in that.

Liz: Does she have a really gigantic right ear?

Jimmy: Yeah, she does. Well, you know what, though? So do I. So I don't. My. My ears don't match. It has vexed me my whole life.

Liz: Just like Stephen Colbert.

Jimmy: Yeah, right. Yeah, exactly. Same ear. Yeah.

Michael: And so we bid a fond farewell to Crybaby Boobie.

Harold: we're gonna be saying this a lot, aren't we?

Jimmy: Yeah, it's a bummer. It's nice that we get to lose people like Crybaby Boobie first.

Michael: They're dropping like flies.

Jimmy: But we've probably already seen the last of Five and Three and Four, our new episode’s up about the strange death of Tapioca Pudding. 

March 19. Charlie Brown's atop the pitchers, man, and Schroeder's out there with him. And Charlie Brown says, do me a favor. Go ask Pigpen why he doesn't wear a baseball cap. Then Schroeder goes to Pigpen and says, the manager wants to know why you don't wear a cap. And then Schroeder comes back to the mound and says, he said he doesn't want to muss up his hair. 

Jimmy: Why did he do it this way? Why isn't it weird? Like, why would he have. I understand. Like, the. The joke is good and it's. It's perfect for pig men. But why didn't Charlie Brown just ask him directly? He could have done it the exact same way.

Harold: I think it's funnier somehow that the manager of the baseball team is asking the catcher to ask some random player. And then Schroeder doesn't say Charlie Brown wants to know.

Jimmy: He just manager.

Michael: Well, isn't the catcher often the captain?

Jimmy: I don't know about that.

Michael: Well, the manager generally doesn't play, so the. There's usually a captain on the team that is the one who, you know, does the dirty work.

Harold: That would be Pig Pen.

Jimmy: Yeah, I don't know they're necessarily always the catcher, because I know, like, you know, center fielder is like the captain of the outfield, but I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. It's a weird way to do it.

Harold: If I had a bad hand tremor, I think I would have been leaning heavily into pig pen.

Jimmy: 100%. He would be the star of the show. And he kind of is, because here he comes back 

March 20th. Pigpen's sitting on the bench next to Lucy, and Lucy says, pigpen, why can't you look neat like the other players? And then Pigpen says, last year I batted .712. And he picks up the. The bat and says to Lucy, neatness doesn't bat .712.

Harold: He's a little miffed there.

Michael: Yeah, well, that fits in with our theory of who the best player is.

Jimmy: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Harold: He's been holding.

Liz: John Merullo said that it was Shermy.

Jimmy: Well, John's wrong.

Michael: No, you can't bet higher than .712 That's impossible.

Jimmy: That would be hard. It would be hard.

Michael: First of all, it implies a lot of at bats, because that's a weird fraction. So it means he's hitting consistently.

Jimmy: Yep. 

March 26th. Okay, so, after the first game of the season, of course, the gang loses and we're back at Charlie Brown's house, and Sally's on the phone. She says, yes, I heard you lost the first game of the season. I've never seen my big brother so depressed. Sure, I'll tell him. And then she comes back to see Charlie Brown in the living room, sitting there holding Linus blanket in classic thumb and blanket position. And Sally says, Linus says to keep the blanket as long as you want.

Harold: Very sweet of Linus, the little forlorn hat. So even the brim is kind of sad.

Jimmy: Yeah, the forlorn hat really, has become a baseball staple in Peanuts again.

Harold: well, that's also another strip where there's this indirection where it's somebody talking through somebody. Yeah, he seems to enjoy playing with that.

Jimmy: Does it look like Sally gained a little weight there in panel two? She has a giant head and her arm is huge.

Liz: Could be an allergic reaction.

Jimmy: It could be 

April 15th. Charlie Brown is, in the beanbag chair watching TV, and Sally comes up behind him and says, I have another new philosophy. She says, what did you expect, a medal? And then she leans up against the beanbag chair opposite Charlie Brown and says, some philosophies take a thousand years. I think of them in two minutes.

Michael: I'm not sure it is a philosophy.

Jimmy: What'd you expect, a medal?

Michael: Yeah. Is it.

Jimmy: Can be.

Michael: It's a good catchphrase.

Harold: Like how Charlie Brown's feet kind of go up in the third panel.

Jimmy: It's just a mild shock. All right. And wrapping up this week, 

April 19th, Lucy, comes out to the pitcher's mound holding a hockey stick. And she says, just checking in. Manager just letting you know everything is taken care of out in right field. And then Charlie Brown says, I absolutely refuse to ask what that's all about.

Michael: I just laughed. Hey, I'm gonna put a little star next to this.

Harold: Michael laughed.

Jimmy: Is that the first time ever?

Michael: No. Well, not in a long time. No.

Jimmy: There you go.

Michael: And, you know, I read it, like, yesterday, but. Oh.

Jimmy: So it was my performance that really. Yeah, there you go.

Michael: It's always the case. No, the script writer is nothing. It's the actor.

Jimmy: All the actors. Well, guys, that brings us to the end of this episode. As always, I had a blast. It's my favorite day of the week, getting to hang out with my pals and talk Peanuts and comics. So if you want to keep this conversation going, well, there's a couple ways you can do it. The first thing, as you know, is you got to go over to unpackingPeanuts.com and you got to sign up for the great Peanuts reread. And that will get you one email a month that will tell you, tell you what we're going to be covering. And, then you'll be able to read ahead and read along with us. You can also call us if you want. If you want to leave a voicemail or just text us, the number is 717-219-4162. Or of course, you can follow us on good old social media. We're at Unpack Peanuts on Instagram and threads and Unpacking Peanuts on Facebook, Blue sky and YouTube. And remember, when I don't hear from you, I worry. So don't make me worry. Until next week for Michael, Harold and Liz. This is Jimmy saying, be of good cheer.

LM&H: Yes, be of good cheer. 

VO: Unpacking Peanuts is copyright Jimmy Gownley, Michael Cohen, Harold Buchholz and Liz Sumner. Produced and edited by Liz Sumner. Music by Michael Cohen. Additional voiceover by Aziza Shukralla Clark. For more from the show, follow Unpack Peanuts on Instagram and threads, Unpacking Peanuts on Facebook, Blue sky and YouTube. For more about Jimmy, Michael and Harold, visit unpackingPeanuts.com have a wonderful day and thanks for listening.

Jimmy: Hello, darkness, my old friend.