4th Anniversary Episode

Joshua Stauffer: Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the show. This is Unpacking Peanuts with special guest announcer Joshua Stauffer. Joining us, as always, are our pals, co hosts, and fellow cartoonists. First, he is the comic genius behind some of the most groundbreaking comic books and graphic novels of the 21st century, including Amelia Rules, the dumbest idea ever, and seven good reasons not to Grow up is Jimmy Gownley.

Jimmy: Hi.

Joshua Stauffer: He's a playwright and a composer, both for the band Complicated People, as well as for this very podcast. He's the co creator of the original Conflict Price Guide, the original editor for Amelia Rules, and the creator of such great strips as Strange Attractors, A Gathering of Spells, and Tegal river is Michael Cohen.

Michael: Say hey.

Joshua Stauffer: And he is the executive producer and writer of Mystery Science Theater 3000, a former vice president of Archie Comics, and the creator of the Instagram sensation Sweetest Beast, it's Harold Buchholz.

Harold: Hello.

Joshua Stauffer: And making sure everything runs smoothly and keeping us out of trouble is producer and editor Liz Sumner.

Liz: Howdy.

Joshua Stauffer: And now here's Jimmy.

Jimmy: All right, thanks to Joshua Stauffer for that guest intro. If you want to do it, you can record it at The Peanuts Hotline, 717-219-4162. Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the show. It's Unpacking Peanuts, the show where we talk about the greatest comic strip of all time, Peanuts, by good old Sparky Schulz. And today is our anniversary episode. We have been doing this show for four, 400 years.

Harold: It doesn't seem that long.

Jimmy: It doesn't. Not a day. Over 399 years. Now it's our fourth anniversary. Is that all right?

Liz: Yep.

Jimmy: That doesn't seem possible. Next year will be half a decade of this.

Michael: What you must be now.

Jimmy: Well, guys, we are here four years into this project. we've did our original mission, which was to, read all the Peanuts strips. Can you believe we've been doing it so far? Four years. That seems insane to me.

Michael: There's no way we could have done

Harold: that to check our math.

Liz: Now, you guys talked about you had the original concept when. Because I came along in, like, January of 2022.

Jimmy: Oh, it was several years before that. I'm not even sure because Harold and I were at a comic book convention, so it was well before the pandemic. When I first pitched the idea to

Harold: him, do you remember? I was still in Pennsylvania finishing up my work at Mystery Science Theater. So it was probably around the beginning of 2019, maybe. Does that make sense? Even earlier, possibly.

Jimmy: It could be earlier, yeah. I'm not 100% sure, but, yeah, I was.

Liz: But then we can't look at those old recordings to find out what date was that was.

Jimmy: No, because I had, the idea for it a long time before we actually recorded anything.

Liz: Yeah, you're right.

Jimmy: Everyone, let that go. The only thing I want to hear about me throwing those recordings away is. Thank you, Jimmy. Michael, what are your thoughts?

Michael: Oh, you dragged me kicking and screaming into this. No, I didn't think I could, do it. I was actually quite nervous. But why? At first, because, I don't talk all that much, and I'm, not that spontaneous. And also, I hadn't really paid attention to Peanuts for many, many, many years.

Harold: Well, when you talk, you make it count, Michael.

Michael: I try.

Jimmy: Well, I come from Girardville, where no one has ever said, I don't talk that much. And also, I don't know if this is a superpower I have or a, complete mental defect, but not being able to.

Harold: They're often the same. That's what I've noticed in the Marvel and DC universes.

Jimmy: Not being able to do something never even crosses my mind or, like, failure. Like, what if we, like, all right, like, I fail, for breakfast. It doesn't bother me in the least.

Liz: Wow. I want to be like you when I grow up.

Harold: That is a good gift. That is a good superpower.

Jimmy: Yeah. It could get you into trouble.

Harold: Well, that's true.

Jimmy: But they all can. They all can.

Harold: Yeah. But you're gonna. You're gonna learn a lot in life. Maybe.

Jimmy: Well, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Well, I mean, there are a million things that we've done that didn't make it this far. We tried. Or I've. Yeah. we've tried together.

Harold: those deep fried jello pudding pops never went over.

Jimmy: I still think they should. I don't understand how that one didn't work. Let's reconvene after this and work on those again. But. Yeah. So four years into this little, experiment, seems kind of worth taking a moment to celebrate and reflect. 

So what we decided we're going to do for our special episode here is we are going to read random Peanuts comic strips. We have not selected these, you know, like we normally do through our fine process of,

Harold: Our curating. Curation capabilities are out the window.

Jimmy: These are going to be curated by the simple twist of fate. And to make it even more, of a challenge. There's going to be a random element within the random element, meaning there's a potential that we will get a non Peanuts comic strip that we have to discuss intelligently, like cartoonists and podcasters.

Harold: Yes. Without going into details, I was the stupid person to come up with that idea. But I found a random way to get random strips and random days and of, stuff in many cases maybe we've never even heard of. And I've loaded them up and so these guys will be seeing this for the first time if we roll the wrong number and we don't get a Peanuts strip. And there are going to be some interesting surprises if we get to that. So we'll see what happens.

Jimmy: Well, what do you think, guys? do we need any other preamble other than that? Liz, do you have something you want to say about our fourth anniversary before we move on?

Liz: No, just very happy to thank you to all the listeners who've been along the ride with us for the entire journey. And, I hope that the audio quality has improved over the four years we've been trying.

Jimmy: Well, you do a great job.

Harold: you've worked wonders with our various setups and mics through the years.

Jimmy: I don't even have a microphone. I just yell into one like a toilet paper roll and hope that she can catch it.

Harold: Yeah. And she makes it work.

Liz: well, I have computer help. And, this is what AI is good for.

Harold: Yep. Replacing one of us randomly episode.

Michael: I'm going to point out that this is a hand crank strip-O-matic from Radio Shack.

Harold: Okay.

Michael: So if you don't like the strips, you can complain to Radio Shack. Yeah.

Harold: A Tandy company. All right, all right. So we got a one in six chance. I've got my little die here that we're going to not get a Peanuts strip. So hold on. Hold your breath. Oh, Peanuts.

Jimmy: All right, Peanuts it is.

Harold: That was a close one.

Liz: February 5th, 1952.

Jimmy: February 5th. That's my birthday.

Liz: Oh, my goodness.

Jimmy: Pretty exciting. 

February 5th, 1952. Shermy and Charlie Brown are outside, and Charlie Brown has a little can or something in his hand, and he says to Shermy, what do the directions say? And, Shermy reads it and then says to Charlie Brown, tear off outside wrapper and throw it away. Which Charlie Brown does by littering. And then he just throws it away. And then Shermy and Charlie Brown in the next panel, Charlie Brown says, then what? And Shermy walks away saying, just a minute. And then we see the wrapper on the ground. And Shermy continues to read. Next, open top of can and remove contents. We are off to a great start. Yeah.

Michael: Not one of the great Peanuts of all time

Harold:, but Shery's adorable here. Yeah.

Michael: We haven't had a Shermy in a long time.

Jimmy: A long time since we, saw a Shermy

Harold: So what. What did we get for the shermometer on this. This strip? We didn't take it, right?

Michael: No, we didn't.

Liz: He's literal.

Michael: he's littering.

Jimmy: Well, he's helpful.

Harold: Literally littering. That's Charlie Brown.

Michael: He's telling him to do it now.

Jimmy: If this were later, I think Schulz would do things like not have them outside, because what are they gonna, I. I think what's happening is he has, like, a can of something like Chef Boyardee, Right. That you're supposed to heat. And why are they outside?

Michael: Well, he could have thrown this strip away, that's for sure.

Jimmy: Well, there probably is a reason we didn't discuss this one the first time through. Not one of the best.

Harold: I love the art, and I, really, really, really like the design of Shermy here and the fine cross hatching on his hair and the little sheen of the, you know, the sunlight falling on the top of Sirmi's head. That's really nice stuff, I think.

Jimmy: I'm telling you. Sony, if you're out there, we could do a little Peanuts special. Or not special. A whole series. You just do stuff between 1950 and 1955. You adapt that. It's a whole different vibe.

Harold: When you say little Peanuts, it's like, are their heads even bigger?

Jimmy: Their heads are even bigger.

Harold: Peanuts baby.

Michael: They are.

Jimmy: You know what I mean? You would do the. I think if you did this design, you kept it just as sophisticated, verbally animated it so little kids could watch it with their parents. And it would have almost like a Sesame Street vibe without the educational part. It would be a huge hit. A huge hit.

Harold: Yeah, I could see that. I'm just marveling at the art, how nice it is, the mixture of brush and pen.

Jimmy: Yeah. And there is no way Mr. Schulz is using that radio 914 in this early stage.

Harold: I do have a question for you. So is Shermy a greaser? He got the kid stuff in there. A little duck fat.

Jimmy: Maybe he really. Because he becomes a devotee of the crew cut kind of later. Right? Is that what we call what he has? Kind of. Or maybe like a buzz. It's like the. It's almost like a military cut later.

Harold: Yeah, yeah, but not here. He's got a nice full head of hair on the front there.

Jimmy: Yeah, and it is slicked back on either side. Right. Maybe he does have a ducktail in the back.

Harold: Little dab’ll do ya.

Jimmy: All right, I think we've exhausted everything we could possibly share about this strip. When we're contemplating Shermy's hair care products, we reached the end.

Harold: This is random, folks. All right, well, if we're doing this four years.

Jimmy: Oh, I sure can. Oh, boy, I sure can.

Liz: What'll we be talking about four years from now?

Jimmy: Charlie Brown's shoelace. What brand do you think it will be?

Harold: All right, I'm gonna roll this again. Maybe we do want a random strip from somewhere else. Throw a little variety in the mix. Here we go. Oh, it's got a two. I'm, looking for a snake eye. So we got Peanuts.

Liz: okay.

Jimmy: July 7th, 1952. Lucy and Charlie Brown are outside enjoying some ice cream cones, and they're just licking away at it. Lap, lap, lap, lap, lap, lap, lap, lap, lap. And then the next panel, Patty comes up and Charlie, Brown says to her, we're having an ice cream cone eating race. Lucy's continuing. Lap, lap, lap. Who's ahead? Says Patty. Lap, lap. And then in the last panel, Charlie Brown says Lucy by two laps.

Liz: Badumpbump

Jimmy: that's pretty.

Harold: Wow.

Michael: Schulz does not descend to the pun very often.

Harold: Well, 1952, he does. I'm telling you. But. Well, okay, the thing that makes this super awkward is I've never, ever seen a human being lapping in ice cream in the first place. So he's, like, setting himself up for the joke.

Liz: Yeah. Yeah.

Harold: Ah, it's weird.

Liz: Weird. Lick, lick, lick. Wouldn't do the same thing.

Jimmy: Yeah. Oh, because you're dog's lap.

Liz: Yeah, it's for something liquid.

Harold: Have you ever heard someone lapping an ice cream cone? I have not.

Jimmy: I mean, I don't think people would talk like that normally, but if someone was really eating an ice cream cone and you wanted to say, look at that guy. He's really lapping it up over there. Yeah, I could see that.

Michael: I don't think I would lap. I would actually eat an ice cream cone.

Harold: Eat it with you. Bite into it. Bite each piece.

Michael: Not with teeth, but top of your

Liz: mouth and bottom of your mouth.

Michael: Yeah, just mouthing it.

Harold: Okay. All right then, guys, something we've learned new.

Jimmy: The show's canceled.

Harold: Random randomness in touch with us.

Jimmy: Forget it.

Liz: okay.

Harold: All right, I'm gonna roll again for our non Peanuts strip. And it is five. We got Peanuts.

May 19, 1963. It's a Sunday. Snoopy's lying atop the doghouse, and it's a hot one. The sun is baking down on him. And then he looks at his dog dish, and it's empty. And he says, empty, and I'm dying of thirst. And then he puts the dog dish in his mouth, and he carries it over to an outdoor spigot. He's sitting there, though, holding it in his mouth. And for one, two, three, four or five panels, or four panels anyway, he's just sitting there, kind of flummoxed by what to do to get the water from the spigot into his bowl. And then in the next two panels, it starts raining, which saves him the trouble. And then he goes back to, his dog house, drinks the water, and then goes back on top of the doghouse and says, that's what I'm going to have to think about for a while.

Michael: We picked this, didn't we?

Harold: I don't remember.

Michael: Yeah, because I think it's really good.

Jimmy: Yeah.

Michael: And it's. Jimmy had often said that Schulz enters into the strip by creating these weird phenomenon that don't make sense.

Harold: Yeah.

Jimmy: And here we have it. Exactly. He's like, oh, Snoopy, you can't get water that way. Here, I'll take care of it for you. It lasts for exactly four panels, and then Snoopy's back on top of the doghouse.

Harold: You're welcome, Snoopy. Was that a, was that a Fawcett Crest paperback title? You're welcome, Snoopy. It sounds like one, probably, but, yeah, I love the faucet. For those of you listening at home, it's this kind of faucet. I don't see much anymore. This is maybe a Sepastopol, California kind of faucet. It's basically a. A metal pipe that goes up about 2ft out of the ground and then has a little, up out of the ground. And then you got a little, little 90 degree joint. And then classic turn, outdoor turn. Faucet pointing downward. Have you guys seen this before in the. In real life?

Michael: It did not look strange to me.

Harold: Okay.

Liz: Yeah. I can't remember exactly where, but it looks normal to me, too.

Jimmy: Okay, now, faucet in my life is attached to the house where the pipes are.

Harold: Right.

Jimmy: I would never. I don't think anyone would go. All right, now let's make sure we run another 50ft of pipe out into the middle of the yard.

Michael: Well, if you had a big yard, you need your hose to attach to it.

Jimmy: You would. Yeah, but the hose would attach to the house.

Michael: Yeah, but if the yard's really big, it wouldn't reach.

Harold: That's true.

Jimmy: I'll let you think about that. Okay. So anyway, look at the. Look. This is another example. The difference between the Snoopy on top of the doghouse and panel one versus the Snoopy right next to him. I mean that the Snoopy on top of the doghouse, the neck is so fat.

Harold: Yeah.

Jimmy: And then it becomes so skinny.

Liz: And he becomes half, again, as large.

Harold: Yeah, yeah.

Michael: And his arms grow.

Harold: Yep. And I love that drawing in the upper right corner there.

Jimmy: Oh, yeah.

Harold: The looseness of Schulz's style by 1963 is. Is. Is getting there. And the. And the lettering is this. It's. He's getting to that really loose stage in the lettering as well, which he's been doing a while. It just looks really nice. It's great, great, great cartoony. You know, again, I think about this being the strip by 1963 that was out there and nobody could touch

Jimmy: it and nobody can still touch it. the amount of Peanuts merch that is out in the world right now, it's crazy. I mean, it's gotta be one of the top three or four still most popular intellectual properties in the whole world. And 75 years old, and it was all done by one guy. Really. It's crazy.

Harold: It is crazy that, you know, it sold for how many hundreds of millions of dollars after having really gone away in its initial form with Nothing new for 25 years, is a testament to these characters. And it's pretty, pretty crazy. But reading one of these strips, it

Jimmy: makes sense, having gone through all the strips. Yeah, it does make sense. And so much of it's still completely holds up. It's really. Even though it's so closely tied to its time, it's timeless as well. Yeah, he did a good job.

Harold: And since we are doing random strips, I'm going to do something random here and ah. I'm going to go panel by panel whether or not Snoopy has eyebrows. All right. No, no. Yes. Yes. No, no. Yes, yes, yes, yes. No, no, yes, yes.

Jimmy: And what, five or six back? The eyebrows are well off his head.

Liz: Yep.

Harold: Yeah, that's true. He's got the floating eyebrows. It's great. I love it.

Liz: I love the. The, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8th panel where he's waiting, waiting, turning and looking at us. Then waiting to see if the. Will there be water coming out of this, then?

Harold: Yeah, it's great. It's.

Jimmy: It's just.

Harold: It's a really, really nice strip.

Jimmy: all right, let's hit the random generator.

Harold: All right, hold on. Let's see what we got here. Roll again. A four. So I'm. I'm gonna. So now that it's not happening, I'm gonna raise the stakes. next time I. Next time I roll. If it's a one for 

Michael: You!. 

Harold: This is a random show.

Michael: You can’t change the rules 

Liz: Yes, you can. We can.

Michael: The point of dice is to randomize.

Jimmy: I gotta try something here. Might I suggest lying?

Harold: No.

Liz: Oh, there you go.

Harold: Thanks for asking.

September 3, 1955. Charlie Brown and Lucy are, walking in Lucy's living room. And Lucy looks, really annoyed, and she says, I'm a real pessimist. And then she says, I'm not ashamed to admit it either. I'm proud of it. She's kind of looking at a plant in her room in her house and says, I was a little discouraged there for a while, but not anymore. Right now, I'm very optimistic about my pessimism.

Michael: Okay. Nice curtains.

Harold: Yeah.

Liz: Good plants.

Jimmy: It's a good one with Lucy. as in our regular season here, we're doing the Van Pelts. I think this would have been a pretty good one to include Lucy being optimistic about pessimism.

Harold: Are you guys, botanists? Do you know what that house plant is? That's quite a piece of art there.

Jimmy: It feels like those kind that have the real shiny top leaves and they're fuzzy on the bottom.

Michael: it's probably plastic.

Jimmy: I'm going to very well be plastic

Harold: to match the covering of the chair next to it. Yeah, but this is all from conjecture, random conjecture about the furniture in the Van Pelt house, which is unconrobberated by.

Liz: They would not have plastic on their furniture. No, no.

Harold: That would be gauche.

Liz: Yes, completely. And I believe the plant is a monstera.

Harold: A monstera? How do you spell that?

Liz: M, O, N, S T, E, R, A. I don't know whether I'm pronouncing it.

Michael: That's like one of those Kirby monsters from the 50s.

Jimmy: Bow before the might of Monstera.

Harold: Now, was Schulz consistent? Those drapes have shown up a lot, right?

Michael: Huh?

Harold: Is he consistent about whose house they're in, or does he just draw them wherever he wants?

Michael: Well, I'd say you didn't know in this trip, except she is playing with the plant. But it might not be her house.

Liz: Well, but.

Harold: Well, that's true.

Liz: Patty had interesting drapes in her house with that picture with the modern furniture. I mean, the butterfly chair and the, special lounge chair.

Harold: Mid century modern.

Liz: Yeah. So I, I think I bet all of the people in the neighborhood have cool drapes.

Harold: Yeah. This is probably one of those companies that built all of the houses in the same subdivision and they just came furnished.

Jimmy: All right, we got it.

Harold: I'm gonna. We'll do another little roll here. You will get the joy of your life with one of these amazing strips I found.

Jimmy: Okay.

Harold: All right, so I am going to point you in the direction of Witty Kitty.

Jimmy: Oh, my God.

Michael: Ooh, that's, the 20s or something.

Jimmy: I'm going to make you read this one, Harold.

Harold: I will read this one. Yeah. With great joy. Did you guys know that there was a single comic book syndicated panel called Witty Kitty?

Jimmy: I did not.

Harold: This is 1933, the Bell Syndicate. Yeah, it was a single panel. And yeah, I had not seen this before, and it says it's by Nina Wilcox Putnam. And I have, since I was the one that pulled these strips out, I have looked in a little bit into Nina Wilcox Putnam, and she was a prolific author. She. She campaigned against corsets for women.

Liz: Way to go.

Michael: Yay.

Harold: She also, is, as a writer, has the distinction of having written the screenplay for the Boris Karloff monster movie the Mummy. Oh, and she also wrote the first IRS 1040 forum.

Michael: That's horrible.

Harold: In 1913. Oh, well, so she's a. Ah, she's very interesting. She wrote all sorts of genres, hundreds and hundreds of stories. She was, she was definitely a working writer. And this strip or panel, I should say Witty Kitty, I was looking for random versions. It's like I learned about the strip and that it existed, and then I had to find a random version.

Jimmy: Can you imagine if Harold read every one of these strips? Okay, all right, so here's the thing now, okay, now, back in the 60s, I now my. My neighbor, who was not real, by the way.

Harold: All right, so I shall now read to you Witty Kitty from 

May 26, 1933. We see looks. Looks like a flapper with lovely white gloves looking at a stack of dishes in a sink. Huge stack. And she's going out the door with her friend who's holding an envelope for some reason. And it says, the girlfriend says that she notices that sinks are being made so they will hold a lot more dishes since the talkies became so popular.

Michael: I don't get it.

Liz: They're going off to the movies so

Jimmy: she's not doing the dishes. Instead she's going off to the movies. So is that Kitty? We're to assume that is the witty Kitty.

Harold: Well, the thing that I don't understand is all of these strips seem to start with things like the girlfriend says or the something someone says. The very first one of these I saw was a lady looking into a showroom of cars, like an indoor car showroom through a window. And then the thing that was below it, the caption was so unrelated. I was looking at this in old newspaper. I couldn't even tell if it was. If it was from the same strip. So I don't know what's going on with. With why the conceit is that you say the girlfriend says.

Jimmy: Yeah, well, it must have been. It could have been a thing of the time. The, the version today, of something like that is someone will show a meme or a video or something online. Right. And the. And like, let's say it's a kid cheering in the street for whatever reason. And it's like the moment you first saw Superman, or whatever, you know.

Harold: Yeah.

Jimmy: It's always the moment you. Or them, whatever you. And then it's. Yeah. So it's like this formula, and then you plug in the end and then basically attach an almost unrelated or at least emotionally rated related picture, which is kind of like a version of gag cartooning without drawing.

Harold: Well. And I don't know that she drew this. Maybe she only wrote it. She had, like a syndicated column that was in 500 newspapers.

Michael: So my first impression when I saw it was that, ah, that's definitely a woman cartoonist. 

Liz: Why?

Michael:  the concentration on fashion

Jimmy: Yep. I always feel like when I look at, you know, early comics, men and women doing the, men seem to be. They draw from structure and then screw up the detail. So the structure is. Is better and the detail is bad. And early women cartoonists, it seems like the detail is good and structure is bad, and if somehow they could just do it together, it would be like the perfect comic strip. But I see that a lot back in these early things, and I don't

Harold: know why that's odd. Yeah. Apparently this thing ran for about 17 years, and because this lady was so prolific, that's why I'm thinking maybe she didn't draw it because she was writing screenplays to the Mummy and stuff like that.

Jimmy: Yeah. Because this is not easy.

Harold: No credit to the artist.

Jimmy: Elaborate drawing.

Harold: Yeah, it's nicely done. even if you didn't read the caption, just as a little Image in your newspaper as you were flipping through. It's a pleasant drawing. So, yeah, that's a piece of history I did not know about comics. Witty Kitty by Nina Wilcox Putnam. How random.

Jimmy: There you go. That's random. All right, let's go back to the random, generator and hope we get a Peanuts strip. 

March 28, 1978. Snoopy is out there with the Beagle Scouts, at least four of them. And the Beagle Scouts are all sitting on top of a rock. And Snoopy says to them, today we should review what we know about first aid. Olivier, what would you do if you were alone in the forest and you hurt yourself? And Olivier chirps back a little response. And then Snoopy says, all right, but let's say your mother couldn't hear you. 

Jimmy: It's a good call. Olivier is going to call his mom. I think that's what I would probably do, too.

Harold: And then instead, yeah, Ah, first resort.

Jimmy: Yeah, absolutely, Mom. Really cute. I love the little Beagle Scouts. I think they're adorable. And, you know, I do think the Woodstock design is possibly just the greatest character design ever. It's just so strange and so minimal,

Harold: too, that they're sitting on, the rock. Yeah.

Jimmy: I think this newbie scoutmaster look is. Is great, too.

Harold: Yeah. And that's become popular in the licensing world. The whole Beagle Scouts thing is you'll definitely see it in the mix if you go to your local store. I was given a gift for Christmas that is a Beagle Scouts sweatshirt.

Jimmy: Oh, very nice.

Liz: Oh, you should send us a picture of you wearing it. I do remember the moment when I realized, oh, Beagle Scouts, like Eagle Scouts. I get it. So. But it was, like, months after we had started talking about Beagle Scouts.

Michael: I just learned that, right now.

Harold: That's funny. I do have a question for you guys. How does Snoopy keep his. His backpack on because he has no shoulders?

Jimmy: Velcro.

Harold: It's attached to the little kerchief strangling him.

Jimmy: All right, let's take a break now and then come back and have more madness. It'll be fun. 

BREAK

VO: Now, as you might know, all three of the hosts here on Unpacking Peanuts are cartoonists ourselves. And, we would love for you to sample some of our work. If you want to do that, you can go over to unpacking store. Check out the store there where you'll find links to all our books. New Ameliam Rules Books. 25th Anniversary Edition with new stories out Harold's Sweetest Beast Books. All of Michael Strips, Strange Attractors Omnibus. Get them all there. 

Jimmy: And we're back. Since this is our anniversary show, we don't have to check the mailbox right now. We could do that next episode. But of course, we love hearing from you, so make sure to send us an email to unpackingpeanuts@gmail.com or text or call our hotline, 717-219-4162 all. All right. So shall we hit the random randomizer?

Liz: Yes.

Harold: All right, we got a Peanuts strip on our hands.

November 29, 1970. Snoopy is sitting in an air traffic control tower.

Liz: How did you know that?

Jimmy: It took a second, but I pulled it out. 

And then it cuts hard to Snoopy and Woodstock atop the doghouse with it snowing and snowing pretty hard. And the next panel, Snoopy thinks to Woodstock, it's snowing too hard. You can't fly today. You'll just have to turn back. But Woodstock, undaunted, takes off into the air. And then Snoopy is annoyed by this and says, stupid bird. And then he says, ha. I knew it. And as he says, this coming back is just like a floating little snowball with the path that Woodstock would normally fly on. and then the snowball lands on top of the doghouse, and Snoopy says, always listen to the control tower and the little snowball which contains Woodstock. Just sighs.

Harold: That one. I don't remember this one. This is really cute.

Jimmy: It is. It's interesting, though, about, like, here. Here's something like the. The, The process by which a cartoonist simplifies his work over time makes a lot of sense to me because you're working on things to get better at them, and eventually you find what you can do with three lines. You could do with one line. Having said that, I think if 1958 Schulz saw that first panel, he'd be like, what are you doing? That looks like a kid's drawing of the bottom of the control towers. Yeah, well, the top, too, but really the bottom, there's no attempt to make it look like real windows. They're just rectangles that were not ruled off.

Harold: And what do you think, of telegraphing a bit of the punchline at the beginning? Do you have any issues with that? Do you think it helps this kind of set you up for it because you're going to forget it if you notice it, the first. First place?

Jimmy: Well, I think. I think, you have to really look at it to figure out that it's an air traffic control tower.

Michael: Yeah, I would have thought it was a prison control tower.

Jimmy: It looks like a prison watchtower. Yeah, I can see that for sure. Those are spotlights. Yeah.

Harold: When I first. First, time I saw it, I thought air traffic control tower. I think it's because of the little. Little headphones. Snoopy has. That seemed to help. I don't know. But still. Yeah, but he's. He is telegraphing the. What, might be in the punchline. But, yeah, it's like, I don't think anybody's gonna have. Does it help in the fact that if someone did notice that, that. That is. There's a callback that's part of the surprise that you weren't at all expecting because you just kind of lost it over.

Jimmy: Here's what I think.

Liz: It's bad weather. I mean, it's. It's not like a. A secret or a. A, surprise ending. It's. Yeah, I think you shouldn't fly in bad weather.

Harold: Well, I don't think any of us would in a million years have guessed the punchline, though, if you know what I mean, at the end. it makes sense. I'm not saying it's. It's random like this show.

Michael: I'm just saying I think there is a punchline. I think the punchline's the little blob of snow flying.

Jimmy: Well, yeah, that's what I. Yeah, that's what I think, too. Yeah. I think the joke is the ball flying back and the sigh. More than that being.

Harold: Yeah, you don't need a strong final line with that visual. That's. It's. That's genius. A little floating snowball.

Jimmy: Yeah. I would like to, We're looking at it in black and white, but I bet it looks pretty good in color now. when I see these kind of strips with all those little snowflakes. Someone had to, back in the day, cut shading film out to color around all of those snowflakes. It would have been a really tedious job to color a strip like this back in.

Harold: You didn't want to be in Buffalo, New York, that day when that showed up. Yeah. Like, oh, no, there's probably a snowstorm going on in Buffalo. And then I was like, really?

Jimmy: I'll tell you what, though. I'm looking at. And I've been for. I think I recommended it a few episodes ago, but I've been really looking at the Al Williamson Star wars stuff. He did. He does the strip, but he also did the Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi adaptations, and he had a whole studio with, like, Rick Veach was part of it. Alfredo Alcala, lots of guys were working with him, but they were great at coloring with these 64 colors. And it will be just like, all right, these three characters will be yellow, and this character will be purple. But, you know, the purple character will fade from your view, and you'll focus on the yellow character. And it looks like lights coming through. And it's so interesting, but it's completely abstract. Like, I guess, my whole point is that, like, the comic book coloring that we grew up loving so much and the comic strip coloring was way more abstract just by necessity.

Harold: And bold, really. Bold. Yeah. It's like Technicolor. Technicolor comics, yeah.

Jimmy: All right, let's see what happens.

Harold: I'm gonna give a little roll here. And we've got a, Peanuts strip.

July 27, 1978. Charlie Brown and Spike are at Violet's doorstep, and Violet answers the door and says, he needs a home. You say. And she thinks it over, looking at Spike, and goes, well, I don't know. Is he vicious? To which Charlie Brown answers, he can be if he gets ahead in the third set.

Michael: I'm guessing tennis.

Jimmy: I would guess tennis. Yeah.

Michael: Is that right?

Harold: okay.

Michael: I think it's interesting because Violet hadn't been appearing right, and her notable feature was the ponytail, but he not showing the ponytail. I wonder if people knew who that

Harold: was because she's sticking her head out the side of her front door with the, You can just see the siding.

Liz: Well, and we are guessing that it's Violet. I mean, it could be somebody who looks like Violet from the front, I

Harold: suppose, but I think,

Jimmy: No, it's definitely Violet, but I think people would know it's Violet because they know the Christmas special. And, you know, those characters are just burned into people's brains. Violet, even if it's, you know, 3, 4, and 5, because they're in the Christmas special, they're just always in the pantheon. Even when you see lots of, like, group shots of the Peanuts characters, you'll see Violet in it, even if it's drawn in a style that you know is well past her. Her prime in the strip.

Harold: I have to say, I really, really, really like Spike, when he does. Doesn't have a half closed eye, and he's got his eyes wide open. All, four panels here, especially panels one and three, I think are adorable. He's kind of looking with the wide eyes at his, potential new owner.

Jimmy: I love how skinny he is. He just looks like a Popsicle stick.

Liz: He looks like that faucet on a stick.

Jimmy: Yeah, he does.

Harold: Yes. Really nice. And, boy, by this time, how gigantic the lettering is compared to those 1952 strips is crazy.

Jimmy: Something Schulz invented was this way of looking out the door like that, you know, where it's.

Harold: You just see the face of the

Jimmy: person protruding from the house, which, you

Harold: know, it's such great shorthand.

Jimmy: Yeah, yeah, but it's perfect shorthand. Right? Real good, real funny. And I have a greater appreciation for Spike and the brothers after our, reread. So it's nice to see them here. Or him here, anyway.

Harold: Yeah, very nice. All right, I'm gonna see. What do we have? We have Peanuts or random. We've got Peanuts.

February 27, 1990. Peppermint Patty and Marcie are on the phone. And Peppermint Patty says, you haven't called us in a long while, Chuck. Don't you like us anymore? And they're both smiling and kind of being flirtatious. And then in the next panel, Peppermint Patty Patty says, or maybe you never did like us. Is that true, Chuck? That you never did like us? Huh? Chuck, Huh? And they're both big goofy grins. And then we cut to Charlie Brown and Snoopy at Charlie Brown's house. And Charlie Brown says, we're sorry, the number you have called is no longer in service. It was a minute ago, but these things happen.

Harold: With Snoopy next to him rolling his eyes. This is one of those rare situations where Schulz will have a third party character just show up for an editorial comment.

Jimmy: Well, what do you think Snoopy is rolling his eyes about what the girls are saying.

Harold: yeah, which is weird because maybe that's what I would think. Yeah, that's Snoopy. But I guess Snoopy could be doing it to Charlie Brown, right? Because that's what he absolutely could be like.

Jimmy: Hey, buddy, they're calling the flirt with you and you're acting like this.

Liz: The girls are making a mistake here. you never do that.

Harold: This is.

Liz: Is that true, Chuck? You never did like us?

Harold: Yeah, I think. I think my phone would go out of service, too. That's, that's, that's just too much pressure.

Liz: Yeah, so would mine.

Jimmy: It was a minute ago. But these things happen. I mean, that's just great. I'm going to use that from now. Am I available? No, I was a minute ago. But these things happen.

Liz: And at Charlie Brown's house, they don't have modern drapes.

Jimmy: No, they have old fashioned curtains. Very nice looking with the little polka dots. Yeah, all right, what is our next strip?

Harold: Our next strip is a Peanuts strip.

September 3, 1955. Snoopy is looking at a football that is on a tee. Well, it's not on a tee, but it's set up as if it's about to be kicked off. And a character comes running in, looks like Shermy, possibly Schroeder, and gives it a good kick. Thump. And this shocks Snoopy. And then the next panel, Snoopy says, I guess that just goes to show what can happen if you don't keep moving as he moves away.

Harold: They wouldn't do that to a doggy, would they?

Liz: It's the football that didn't keep moving. Is that...

Jimmy: Yep.

Harold: Yep.

Jimmy: Well, this is your era, Michael. What do you think about this, Snoopy?

Liz: Yeah.

Michael: I love this. It seems very comfortable. This is the world I want to inhabit.

Jimmy: Who do you think it is?

Harold: Oh, who's. Who's kicking the ball? Yeah.

Michael: Oh, I. I would assume.

Jimmy: I don't know.

Michael: I guess I was. I just assumed it was Charlie Brown, but you can't tell with that helmet.

Liz:  Well, he’s chunky. Whoever it is.

Jimmy: I thought it was pads on. You know, those are padded pads.

Liz: I see, I see.

Harold: And we were talking about Schulz's how he captures motion in the strip, and he does it differently than other people, for sure. In this case, you got someone going from right to left kicking the ball, and there's tiny panels. He has to show Snoopy. So Snoopy's behind watching this happen. But the sound effect is obviously before the drawing because we don't see the ball or the impact of the kick of the ball, and it looks like whoever is kicking it is running into the space where the kick would have happened. So, yeah, he definitely is very confident in breaking what I think the rules would be for most artists trying to capture motion in a still comic panel.

Jimmy: I like this era of Snoopy design. I love the last panel. I would probably put the ear down if I could, you know, if I was turning that into, like, a figurine or whatever.

Harold: But, this is still the bouffant kind of.

Jimmy: It's, like, halfway between. Because he's really got longer ear, much longer ears than when they were, like, those puffed, up, headphone looking ears. What do you call the Jack Kennedy or whatever?

Harold: what do you think of the surprise ears in panel two?

Jimmy: I like that.

Harold: Those are, like, boomerang ears.

Jimmy: Yeah.

Harold: They got little. Little angle on them.

Jimmy: Yeah. Very cute.

Harold: All righty. Well, I'm gonna do a little double roll here. And we've got a, six, which means we've got a random strip. Oh, my goodness. Okay, well, take a look in your little packet here and find Babe, Horace by Edgar Martin.

Jimmy: Babe and Horace, all, right. Any idea when the heck Babe and Horace came out?

Harold: So this is part of the pantheon of Sunday strips when the artist would do a full page, and instead of doing just their strip, they would have a strip on the top or the bottom that was a separate strip that exists only in that world. And so this was the artist Edgar Martin did. Was doing Boots and Her Buddies. And I picked this strip because, you know, how. How long is. Was Boots and Her Buddies around?

Jimmy: I've never heard of it.

Harold: You've never. Oh, wow. So this is doubly obscure. This is the obscure version of a strip that you hadn't heard of. It was around for years and years. Let's see what we can find here. All right, so this strip started in 1924 and ran to 1968. And Babe and Horace was, for the majority of that time, the strip at the top of Boots and Her Buddies on Sundays, if they didn't cut it, because some newspapers would only print the main strip and they'd get rid of the extra strip that the artist had to do. So this one's fascinating to me because, you know, it's been around for 20, 30 years, and this is like the next to last year, just the dying gasp. I think they've changed artists. You know, it's one of those weird things where it's just like the ghost. What do you call it? A zombie strip. Yeah, right?

Jimmy: Yeah.

Michael: Man, I almost thought Trina Robbins would have drawn this.

Jimmy: Yeah, definitely.

Harold: With the.

Michael: With the dolls and all.

Jimmy: Paper dolls.

Liz: Yeah, I loved the comics with the. With the paper dolls. I'm a big Millie fan.

Harold: So what. What they're describing is there is a. Yeah, there's a cutout paper doll that you can take out of your Sunday newspaper and put it over this character. You have two choices. She's wearing what I guess a bathing suit. A frilly edged bathing suit. But you could have the.

Jimmy: Oh, Harold, 

Liz: really, it's underwear.

Jimmy: Frilly edged bathing suit. All right, go ahead, continue.

Harold: All right. She's in her underwear to wear under your clothes. Oh, that. Well, I, Why is it so hot in here?

Jimmy: All right, I'm gonna just read this thing because we're never gonna ever think about Babe and Horace again. So we're just moving on. April 9, 1967.

Michael: Is Boots a cat?

Jimmy: No, Boots is the chick in her underwear. 

And she's friends with Babe, who says, so Babe is in her underwear in her, bedroom with a dressing gown over it. And she says, I've had this new hairdo for nearly a week, and Horace hasn't even noticed. It's frustrating. And then she puts her clothes on and says, I've hinted and hinted to no avail. Maybe sarcasm will penetrate. And then she babes it up, you know, with that one hand behind your back, one hand on your hip, look, that is something. And she goes with icicles dripping off the lettering, balloons. She says, darling, I want to thank you for not noticing my hair. And her boyfriend. Husband is reading the newspaper, and he just says, you're welcome, dear, without looking up. And then the husband says, I see mine is starting to get a little thin, and I want to thank you for ignoring it. This shocks Babe, who then leaves, saying, just for that, he's going to get turnips and parsnips for dinner. 

Jimmy: All right, I think if I was the editor, here's the move. I would cut Boots, and then I would cut Babe and Horace.

Liz: Well, but let's give a shout out to Karen McGarvey, Kathy Fold Dean and Martha Watson for designing those beautiful pinups for Boots Fashion show.

Harold: Yeah, they mailed them in. That's really nice. So they've got a little feature there.

Liz: Yeah, little 11 years old and 15.

Harold: Well, I admire the, brushwork on Babe and Horace. I think it's nice. I don't know what's going on with her arm that's going behind her head. She's, like, checked out the world's longest, upper arm there at a weird angle. Yeah, yeah. Some strange stuff going on there. And, the surprised look of this woman. I mean, imagine this in 1967.

Jimmy: Yeah.

Liz: Really?

Harold: It's just, you know, again, it's one of these things that start in the 20s, and it just makes its way into the 60s, and you kind of scratch your head and go, wow. You know, it's hard to kill a comic strip.

Jimmy: That was like, boy, that was the. It was like a government job. You know, if you got it, you were. You were set. I mean, you had to work every day, and it would be, you know, a slog. No question about it. It's a lot of work. But if you got to the point that you were successful enough to be in enough newspapers, there was. It could last for decades and often did.

Harold: Yeah.

Jimmy: All right, what do we got next?

Harold: Oh, we've got a Peanuts strip.

September 6, 1977. Charlie Brown's watching TV and his sister Sally comes in and says, I need help with my homework. Why don't you do it for me while I sit and watch tv? And Charlie Brown turns and says to her, what do you expect to learn doing that? And then Sally says, how to manipulate other people.

Liz: Way to go, Sally.

Jimmy: That's pretty darn good. Really funny. God, I love Sally.

Michael: Mm,

Jimmy: I like Sally's latter day outfit too. It looks good. And she's in her full on strange wing hair that she's got going on.

Harold: And the, the art by 1977 is looking much more streamlined, isn't it? It's, I don't know, maybe it's because he's working smaller. The newspapers we know were printing them smaller and smaller and smaller as the strip progressed. He had to adjust to that. So we now have the square panels instead of those oblong panels that he started with.

Jimmy: I wonder if that was an irritation for him Constantly. Not constantly, but every once in a while having to change it like that. Although I'm doing this new Amelia Rules comic and I'm doing it magazine sized, which is something I always wanted to do. And it makes no difference really except. But it does. It's just a different aspect ratio and it makes you draw differently. There's no way to avoid it really.

Liz: For those of us who aren't comic book artists. What is magazine size and what is, what is 

Jimmy: like a comic book is like six and two thirds by nine and something. It's a really weird size and. But a magazine is like 8 and a half by 11 and so these are the new Amelia stories are going to be printed in the European album, you know, hardcover formats and. But that's the same size as like the old Love and rockets or ElfQuest comics, which were just my favorite thing.

Harold: It's wider compared to ah, the comic.

Jimmy: Right.

Harold: Cause it's like it's a two by three ratio for a traditional comic book page and also for Amelia. Cause you were putting out six by nine. Yeah. Paperbacks at the time. So you're working big. How does it affect how you approach a page other than the extra width, knowing that it's going to be larger. Do you do anything different with your lettering or.

Jimmy: Well the lettering is now being all done on the iPad even though it's done by hand. So that doesn't, doesn't really change.

Harold: Do you make a bigger font or do you have more panels or are you just doing a bigger font?

Jimmy: Well, I mean, I've had. I just have more room for the old panel. It's just. I don't even know that I could quantify what the difference is, other than the fact that the aspect ratio, because it changes for the whole page, changes basically for every panel. Right. If you're gonna just go, all right, I'm just gonna do the old standard nine panel grid. Well, those nine panels are all different sizes than they would have been if you did them the old way.

Harold: Right. Cause you're dealing with pretty much a square.

Jimmy: Yeah.

Harold: For. If you break it into a two. Two panels for three tiers, that would be basically two inches a panel or whatever and square. And that, that's. That isn't the case anymore.

Jimmy: Yeah, yeah, it's very. It's. It's just makes a fundamental difference, especially for things like timing and interesting layouts and stuff like that. But because I haven't done it for a thousand years, it's kind of interesting. So maybe that was the case with Schulz when something like that would come along.

Harold: Maybe he would.

Jimmy: Yeah. As an opportunity. yeah.

Harold: I mean, I guess he was the one saying, look, I need the extra height. My strip has shrunk so much. You've got to give me some extra height because I. I have to make my lettering huge for people to read it now.

Jimmy: Right.

Harold: You know, I don't. I don't. Obviously, I wouldn't be as his choice. His first choice to have to mess with this stuff. And I, I don'. Like the. The balance between the, the text and the characters here. Even with that extra height that he has. It. It's not as interesting to me as, say, those late 50s art that we saw before. It just seems like he's constrained. And the line. The line width has also become pretty standard now. You don't see a lot of the thicks and thins anymore. it seems to be the same. It's almost as if he could have. He almost could have drawn the characters with the same pen that he did. The lettering, you know, the lettering's just slightly thicker, which I don't really like. I wish the characters were thicker than all that text, you know?

Jimmy: All right, next one.

Harold: All right, we got another random strip. Oh, boy. Get ready.

Jimmy: Which one's this?

Harold: Get ready. We are going to go the world of the Incredible Hulk.

Jimmy: Oh, man. Alrighty.

Harold: I'm guessing this came out at the time that the TV series with Bill Bixby was on.

Jimmy: Oh, for sure.

Harold: This did not run very long. So the, the people that are attributed to this strip are Stan Lee, which I. For the Sunday strip. Maybe he did write it. I don't know. And then there's F is a Giacoia.

Michael: Yeah, that's right. Good inker. Is he penciling this?

Harold: and Alan Kupperberg.

Jimmy: Alan Kuppenberg is normally a penciler.

Harold: Okay. Stan could have actually written this.

Jimmy: well.

Michael: Well, yeah, yeah. We don't want to get into that.

Jimmy: Right. but general, here's what I would guess by having Giacoia as the first name, even though he's traditionally an inker. I bet Kupperberg was just doing layouts and then, Giacoia did the finished art.

Michael: Yeah.

Jimmy: Which is why he gets the top.

Michael: Well, Giancoia, even though he ended up as an inker and is known as an inker, in the 50s, he was doing a lot of penciling for, like, Strange Adventures and Mystery in Space. He was actually a very good penciler and actually one of the better inkers. I'm not surprised that this looks fairly good, Even though I would never read it.

Harold: No. I don't know. In the pecking order of Marvel comics artists, would it be more prestigious to be doing a Sunday newspaper comic seen by millions of people or.

Jimmy: I know John Romita felt that way.

Michael: Really?

Harold: Yeah.

Jimmy: Big into the fact that he got to do the newspaper strip, as was Stan Lee.

Michael: Yeah. But Lee gave it to his brother, the, Spiderman strip anyway.

Jimmy: Yeah, eventually. Yeah. Well, because then he went on to Hollywood, which was even more glitzy and glamorous, I think.

Michael: I don't know. What year was this?

Liz: 1980.

Michael: Yeah, Lee was writing very much at that point.

Harold: So this February 10, 1980, this was pulled from the Lake County News Herald, which apparently at the time was putting out a comic book sized Sunday section. So it's perfect for the Incredible Hulk here because it's essentially a single comic sized page that they've rearranged those panels. The way we talk about. Schulz had to deal with being able to split it into a vertical thing. Well, this is a vertical version of the strip that could have been run either way, depending on the newspaper.

Jimmy: It really looks like a comic book page. I mean, obviously because of the art style, but just because of.

Michael: Except the colors are way brighter than usual.

Harold: Yeah. And way off register. Way off register. Printing is just horrible.

Jimmy: One of our recent episodes, I was talking about how the saturated colors, you know, 100% red and stuff, seems to be the thing. Well, 100% magenta. 100% or 50, whatever it is that makes the rich red color. Those are the ones that tend to go off register, which you can see now like his vest. This bad guy's vest is not unregister in any panel. And it's the, it's the thickest, richest color. And the ones that are, tend to be lighter, tend to be, slightly more in register. It seems like the green doesn't really go outside of register.

Harold: Yeah, well, it's just more obvious, right? The bolder, the bolder, the flatter the color is, the more it's just going to be incredibly obvious that it's not in register. And that's a problem with the horrible printing on this particular strip. This was actually from a cg. I don't know. They CGC graded a page from a comic comics section because Stan Lee had signed it. It's very weird.

Jimmy: Anyway, well, I think they CGC graded it because some dummy paid for them to CGC create a piece of paper.

Harold: Sure, kid.

Michael: Oh, it's fine. That's why.

Harold: And it's almost like they left the space up top for Stan to sign it. It just, it was begging to be signed.

Michael: So.

Jimmy: All right, so it starts off with one of them there symbolic panels. And it's half Bruce Banner, half the Hulk. Really bright red. Looks cool, actually. Then this is a continuing story. So some guy dressed as something says, I got you now, you crummy coward. And he's chasing after Bruce Banner and he, this guy is hugely buff. And he says, no, keep away. Bruce says, it's not that I'm scared. It's worse. Much worse. And then this guy says, nothing's worse than a coward. And then we see scrawny old Bruce Manor, who has arms the size of tree trunks because that's the only way Marvel comic artists know how to draw. Then the bad guy says, there's nowhere you can run to escape me. And then some, other guy comes in and says, max, you're. And this goes on for some time. And then Bruce Banner thinks about turning into the Hulk. He says, my pulse still pounding. Have to hide somewhere before the change occurs. But, oh God, he goes into, a, the wrong room at the circus. And there is a tiger or a lion or some sort of blurry off register animal and a body laying in the ground. And, And Bruce Banner says, sergio. Oh no, he's unconscious. Something's happened. And then everything's off register. And there's a, guy. Yeah. And a tiger. All kinds of stuff is happening.

Harold: Yeah, that's, that's for six panels. There's a lot to throw you all

Jimmy: over the place, but nothing happens.

Harold: Yeah. Hey, yeah.

Michael: Come.

Harold: Come fight me and come fight me. I'm gonna run away because I don't want to turn into the Hulk. Yeah. If you didn't know what. What this was about, if you didn't know the Incredible Hulk, this would be a bit confusing.

Jimmy: It reminds me of our friends on Screw it. We're Just gonna talk about comics. They always say that the biggest insult you can say to someone in early Marvel comics is to call them a coward. You know, if you're a coward or you're yellow, that's the yellow. That's. You're a pantywaist.

Harold: pantywaist.

Michael: Yeah.

Harold: What does that mean?

Jimmy: I don't know. And, when you see. It's so funny because the guy in the bowler hat who's dressed as someone who got rejected from the Village People is supposed to be the tough guy. But then you see Bruce Banner in the panel, like the last panel on the third tier or the first panel on the third tier.

Harold: Fourth tier.

Jimmy: Look at the size of his arms. Bruce Banner is every bit as big as the Hulk

Harold: Yeah. Yeah, you're right. Yeah. They want to draw them looking really, really muscular. Even though he's the pre Hulk.

Jimmy: Yeah. Right. Of course.

Harold: You know, compared to Hulk, I guess, you know, it is a contrast still.

Jimmy: Yeah, But.

Harold: But that's crazy how much. Yeah. Definition he's got on his arms.

Jimmy: Well, I really like. I think, I like that first panel. That first panel looks cool, especially because of the coloring.

Harold: Do you think that's always there and they're just reusing it over and over again?

Jimmy: Oh, I. I bet.

Harold: Yeah. Because if they somewhat spent time on that.

Jimmy: Yeah.

Harold: And it's probably not the same artist who did the stuff below.

Jimmy: So now that looks like Gil Kane to me, but I could be wrong.

Harold: Okay. Well, you know, hats off to them. Trying to keep the kind of adventure thing going. I guess. Sundays were the last places that artists who wanted to tell a story could kind of move things forward. But then you just showed up once a week, so, that's hard to. Who's keeping track in 1980 of a strip that ran in the previous Sunday. I don't know.

Jimmy: yeah. I used to try to keep track of the Spide man one, which I didn't have, but my godmother would send it to me, from Minnesota.

Harold: Would you send you, like, sets of them? So she'd clip them, and then after a month or two or three.

Jimmy: Exactly. Yeah.

Harold: Yeah, yeah.

Jimmy: And, after, like, a year or Two, though. It's like this. Nothing happened. It's gone on for a year and literally nothing has happened to Spider Man.

Harold: Why would they do that?

Jimmy: I don't know.

Harold: I guess they're just turning it out, cranking it. Yeah.

Jimmy: And just not good at it. Like, you can't just go, oh, I do comics. I can easily do a daily strip. Or like, it's not the same thing.

Harold: Yeah. I was wondering, you know, for the people who are making the assignments, if you have a Sunday strip versus your monthly Spiderman or Incredible Hulk, I'm guessing you don't want your top tier artist to be doing the Sunday strip because, like we said, you can't kill a strip. So you're going to sell more copies if it's well drawn. But it doesn't really matter, strangely for the Sunday, because you're not gonna lose a paper because you had the second tier artist in there. You would think, Right? I don't know. But this didn't last very long. Regardless, I think, you know, the TV show ran its course and so did the Incredible Hulk. That's a comic strip on Sundays.

Jimmy: All right, here's our next one. Are you ready?

Michael: Yep.

April 3, 1995. Rerun sitting under a tree with his head in his hands. It looks like he was crying. And Charlie Brown says to him, rerun, what's the matter? And Rerun says, some kid won all my marbles. Charlie Brown kneels next to him and says, you're just a beginner. You shouldn't have been playing for keeps. And then Rerun says, I know. You told me that. He even won my shooter. All I have left is this empty sack. And then as they sit there under the tree, Charlie Brown says, I'm surprised he didn't take that, too. And then Rerun says, he couldn't. I ran all the way home.

Michael: This is a great sequence. We did the sequence because it's got, Charlie Brown's heroic.

Jimmy: Yeah, yeah. Schulz was very proud of this sequence. And it ended up being. He wanted it to be an animated special. And ultimately it was.

Harold: That's cool. Yeah. You can see he's putting a lot of care into this particular strip. The he's. Gosh, look, I really love the tree in the second panel.

Jimmy: I like that whole second shrubbery.

Harold: Random.

Harold: Yeah, yeah. It's really. And obviously he's not going for a gag.

Jimmy: Right.

Harold: You know, he's just building your sympathy for Rerun.

Liz: I never knew that all the marbles and Playing for Keeps came from this. I knew the expressions, but I didn't know where they originated.

Harold: Wow. Well, heaps I didn't know. Yeah.

Jimmy: Between that and what was the other thing? The Beagle Scouts.

Liz: Yes.

Jimmy: Real educational. Yeah, well, I mean, that phrase, playing for all the marbles, I mean, that could have come from anywhere. Well, but.

Liz: Oh, I see. You're teasing me.

Jimmy: I am teasing you.

Liz: I get it. You realize that I have control over what you say.

Harold: That's right. You're going to have one of those spliced sentences. Yeah.

Jimmy: All right.

Harold: Oh, no.

Jimmy: Another random one.

Harold: Another random. I'm so sorry. All right, what do we got? Okay, you would take a look at America's greatest color comics section featuring It's Papa who Pays.

Jimmy: It's Papa.

Liz: Okay, tell us your process for finding these strips.

Michael: This sounds, Papa. No one says papa since…

Jimmy: I think you made all of these and are trying to trick us into

Harold: saying, I just drew them, overnight. Yeah. So I did a search for, us comic strips alphabetically, and Wikipedia helped me out with that A to Z list. I then opened a book, and the very first letter and each, first word in each of the books. I then tried to find the next named strip that, like, if the word came showed up, I came up with, you know, a strip that came after the word can came. If it was in a dictionary. That's how I did it. And then I just had to find an example. And strangely, two of them were those. Those Sunday strip topper pages of another existing strip. Now, you hadn't even heard of the main strip, Jimmy, so. No, from the last one. This was from Toots and Casper. Ever heard of them?

Jimmy: No.

Harold: Wow. Okay. Well, Toots and Casper was one of those weird strips like Boots and Her Buddies that last ran for years and it's almost forgotten. Yeah, just one of those weird, Michael, had you ever heard of Toots and Casper at least?

Jimmy: Why are you talking about. I don't know what the hell Toots and Casper is. Are we watching Papa who Pays? What's Toots and Casper?

Harold: So Toots and Casper. In the Sunday page, the artist would draw two strips. The main strip, Toots and Casper, and then would have the Little Topper strip as well.

Jimmy: Right, but we're reading Papa who Pays. Right?

Harold: It's Papa who Pays, which is the. Yeah, which is the. It's the companion strip to Toots and Casper, which ran from 1918 to 1956. And this is 1926. September 5th, 1926.

Jimmy: You know, it's going to be a laugh Riot from 1926. It's Papa who Pays by Jimmy Murphy, who's definitely not a real person. 

So anyway, Papa who pays some. So someone comes in and says, tommy wants Papa, Sis. And then Sis, who's like a flapper, says, why tell it to me? Oh, that's like the Sally line. And then someone else comes in and he looks healthy, and he says, tommy's calling for Papa Ma. And then Ma says, the popcorn wagon must be coming down the street.

Harold: Sure.

And then someone else comes in and says, tommy wants you outside, Papa. Oh, that's Mama that says this. And then Papa's there and says, sure. Just when I get comfortable. And then Tommy's outside, I guess. And he's like, that's nothing, Tommy. Watch me. In my younger days, I was a star. Because. Tommy, wait a second.

Liz: You missed one. You missed one.

Oh, what do you mean, Tommy? Thank God. Yeah, that changes everything. It cut off, and I was like, that makes even less sense. All right, sure. Just when I get comfortable. So then Pop goes outside and he says, what do you want, Tommy? And Tommy's there with the football. And Tommy says, you should have seen Junior Gott's dad kick this football, Papa. He kicked it nearly over to Mrs. Grove's house. And Papa says, that's nothing, Tommy watching me. In my younger days, I was a star. That's. Well, Papa, does it make it really good, But G. Percy flicks it right through an old lady's window and right

Harold: into her open eye.

Like, not into her head, but, like, right into her open eye. And then last minute, Charging me $10 for that window. Mrs. Crow at Mrs. Crow says, Be glad I don't have you arrested.

Michael: Wow.

Jimmy: Now, this was before the invention of humor. It's interesting.

Harold: I do like the football going through the window and coming in contact with

Jimmy: us right into her eye. Right.

Michael: The guys who were influenced by this, strangely enough, were the underground guys. They love this stuff.

Harold: Yeah, yeah, that 1920s style. Yeah, that's true. I don't know where they had access to what they were reading to these old 20s strips, but you're right. Yeah, yeah. This definitely has that.

Michael: Goofy caricatures. What I find strange is that they call each other by name in almost every panel, so it's always Papa.

Harold: I, mean Sis, Ma, Tom.

Michael: it's just a glimpse into the past. We don't know, because there were silent movies this time, what people were talking like normally. This gives you a clue.

Harold: Yeah, well, you know, this helps us appreciate Peanuts all the more. We just had a football kicking strip, then I'm assuming you preferred the Peanuts.

Jimmy: Rips it off.

Harold: Papa who Pays. And it's interesting that this strip was called. It's Papa who Pays, and it ran for decades. And I'm guessing the punchline every single time is Papa reaching for his wallet to pay for something. wow. Can you imagine trying to keep that going? That's, that's like Krazy Kat repetitive. Which also was a topper strip when it started.

Michael: Right.

Harold: So we would not have Krazy Kat if it hadn't been for these bizarre topper strips that they would put on as a secondary Sunday. So that's probably the highlight of those topper strips was the existence of Krazy Kat.

Jimmy: That and Jungle Jim are probably the two people think of the most. I mean, obviously, Krazy Kat thought of as, like, one of the greats of all time. I think this Papa character looks just like Dagwood with a mustache. Dad.

Harold: Yeah. Yeah. That, that art style like, like Michael, you're saying it absolutely continues on. It probably lasted longer than any other strip through bonding and exists to this day. That, that late 20s, early 30s kind of vibe with, with Dagwood's long, kind of rectangular nose and. Yeah, it's, it's old school. It survives.

Michael: Somebody, on Facebook. I get a lot of comic groups that post all the time, and there a lot of these old 20s, 30s strips are appear daily in my feed. I cannot read them. I just don't have the patience to read them.

Harold: Yeah, that's what penis.

Michael: It's really a struggle.

Jimmy: No, I, I, I understand that too. It's, you know, it's just such a long time ago.

Michael: Yeah. I can't read Krazy Kat

Jimmy: Actually, it's hard to read. Well, and that's another thing with, like, Krazy Kat. You're not meant to read a book of Krazy Kat in one sit.

Harold: That's true. Yeah.

Jimmy: Your eyes will cross.

Harold: You have to give them the benefit of how it was designed to be experienced.

Michael: Yeah.

Harold: I think we often, we often judge people based on rules that didn't exist when they made it.

Michael: There was nothing else to do. So. Yeah, you had all afternoon and read the comic page.

Jimmy: Well, yeah. Right. This was like the, the highlight of the whole week for a lot of people, I'm sure.

Harold: Yeah.

Jimmy: Why do you think the underground guys were seeing these old strips?

Michael: I don't know.

Harold: It's so weird, you know? Yeah. I mean. Well, okay, one thing I had heard was when the, when TV came out in the early 50s, there was just a need for content and most of the existing stuff wasn't. There was enough money to be made in tv, so they had to find old stuff. And a lot of the old Van Buren cartoons and Terry Toons cartoons, they were running these black and white late 20s, early 30s cartoons with the same similar style, and they were airing all the time. If you were watching TV in the early 50s, you were watching late 20s, early 30s cartoons with very much that same style. I think a lot of the influence might have been that animation. That's where they kind of got introduced to it. And then I don't know if they were able to seek out, you know, strip collections or something in libraries. There wasn't much out there.

Michael: No, it was a big Smithsonian book, which I don't think this strip was in there. I've never heard of it.

Harold: Yeah, no, and then even that came out after the underground movement, right?

Jimmy: Yeah, that came out in the 70s. Yeah.

Harold: But it is a cool style. I mean, it's kind of neat seeing another generation take something that just kind of fell by the wayside and make it their own and reinvent it. Yeah.

Liz: So if people are fans of, the underground comics, they should look for it's Papa who Pays.

Jimmy: Yeah, that's basically what we're saying here. Jimmy Merker created underground comics.

 June 10, 1992. Snoopy's atop the doghouse in his World War I Flying Ace getup. And Sally is on the doghouse as well as a passenger on the Sopwith Camel. And she says, what kind of an airline is this? Where's the complimentary orange juice? And isn't anyone going to welcome me aboard? And then Snoopy, kisses her on the nose, to which Sally replies, I'd rather have the orange juice. Snoopy flies for spirit. There's no complimentary orange juice. No, I love Sally said it, many times before. We got Snoopy doing his classic kiss on the nose thing.

Liz: How does she know that she's on an airline?

Jimmy: Well, I think the way all of you know, who knows? And finally, our last random strip is 

October 30, 1994. We start off with a symbolic panel. 2. Well, a pumpkin and a gourd. One has Linus's face on it, and the other has Snoopy's. And then we cut to Linus ringing a doorbell with Snoopy behind him. And then a little girl answers the door, and Linus says to her, good morning. I'm here to tell you about the Great Pumpkin. And the little girl says, the what? And then in the next panel, Linus says, on Halloween night, the Great Pumpkin rises from the pumpkin patch and brings toys to all the children. And the little girl says, why should I believe that? And then Linus indicates towards, Snoopy and says, it'll make you a better person. You'll have peace and comfort. Look at my companion here. Waiting for the Great Pumpkin has brought him perfect peace. And then we cut to Snoopy, who is in fact now asleep. And the girl says, yes, I can see that. Go away. And she goes inside. And then they leave. And Linus, as they're walking away, says, I hope she didn't wake you up when she slammed the door. And Snoopy says, I was dreaming about the Great What's his name?

Michael: I think they should have this girl. You should have had this girl more often.

Jimmy: It's a good little design, right?

Michael: The skeptic. Yeah, I like this.

Harold: Yes.

Jimmy: Yeah, I like the little skeptic girl too. She's the little red haired girl, the little skeptic girl.

Harold: Her only appearance, I guess. Yep, it's a good design.

Jimmy: 1992. This is a really good looking strip. Really nice. I think that first panel on the second tier with the little house in the background and just the little bushes and grass. Oh, that looks really nice.

Harold: Yeah, I agree. I like it. And it's not terribly simple. He's putting some details in here. The rose bush, and he's got a little branch from a tree to fill out some white space in one of the panels.

Liz: Yeah, something's going on with his hair. First panel, second tier.

Jimmy: Oh, yeah, It's a little bit.

Liz: Little pompadour kind of thing.

Jimmy: Yeah, that is weird. It's too much. Too many lines or something like that. They may have just filled in, as he was scribbling the hair, maybe

Harold: he combed it before.

Jimmy: Yeah, to try to look nice.

Harold: Before the door was open. And it just kind of like pig pen. It just kind of goes crazier and crazier.

Jimmy: Schiltz talks about how he liked drawing Linus's hair when it would be standing up straight because he's shocked or whatever. But, I wonder why he never did the Linus with combed hair look.

Harold: Yeah, well, maybe we're looking at it,

Jimmy: but by the next panel, it is uncommed.

Harold: It's starting. Yeah, it's going pigpen on him already.

Jimmy: Well, guys, four years have gone by, in this vale of tears, but I couldn't have thought of a better way to spend it than hanging out with my friends, reading Peanuts comic strips with you.

Harold: Guys, Jimmy, thank you so much for coming up with this crazy idea. It's a good idea talking us into it, which is another one of your superpowers,

Liz: along with reading strips.

Jimmy: Well, thank you all for doing it, because the idea was not to read Peanuts. The idea was to read Peanuts with Michael and Harold. And if Liz hadn't come along and saved it, that idea wouldn't have happened either. So I'm really, really glad that all of this came together because it's my favorite day of the week. And if you guys want to, you know, continue this conversation or just be a part of the ongoing fun vibe, there's several ways you can do it. First thing you can do is just, send us an email. We are unpacking Peanutsmail.com. you can also go ahead and call our hotline or leave a text message. 717-219-4162. And of course, you can follow us on social media. We're at Unpack Peanuts on Instagram and Threads and at Unpacking Peanuts on Facebook, blue sky, and YouTube. Make sure you're back, in two weeks because we're just getting started and we got more of the Van Pelts to come. So with all of that said, and with a lot of gratitude for you guys all listening to us for four years, for Michael, Harold, and Liz, this is Jimmy saying happy anniversary to us.

Liz &MC: Happy anniversary.

Harold: Happy anniversary.

VO: Unpacking Peanuts is copyright Jimmy Gownley, Michael Cohen, Harold Buchholz, and Liz Sumner. Produced and edited by Liz Sumner. Music by Michael Cohen. Additional voiceover by Aziza Shukralla Clark. For more from the show, follow Unpack Peanuts on Instagram and Threads. Unpacking Peanuts on Facebook, Blue sky, and YouTube. For more about Jimmy, Michael, Michael, and Harold, visit unpackingPeanuts. Com. Have a wonderful day, and thanks for listening.

Harold: No. Yes. No. Yes. No. Yes. Yes.